"No Irish Need Apply" - how was it defined and applied in real life?

What’s your source for saying that “none but German or Swede need apply” was common in advertisements? I found a few cases of it, but I don’t know of any evidence that it was common or that it’s even a common urban legend that it was common. Where did you hear this?

When I visited my cousins in Belfast at the tail end of the Troubles, I asked them how they could tell if someone was Catholic or Protestant. They said it was by name (certainly last name, and often first names as well). Specifically, they told me “with a name like Shamus Fitzgerald, you may as well be black”.

I’ve been to Ireland lots, and have many 2nd cousins (or first-once-removed - whatever) named Fitzgerald (or sometimes Fitz) and they’re all Catholic. My first cousins (35 of them not including their parents) have an unusual name for Irish folk. It starts with Guin - but it’s not Guinness. I have not been to the North. My last name was created by an Immigration Man in 1939 who thought America had too many Larsons. Yeah, they often did that.

Maybe my father being Norwegian could get me one of those "Only German or Swedish need apply"jobs but my Mom being Irish would maybe cancel that.

Oh, and I think the name would be Séamus / Seamus, like David Gilmour’s hound-dog. :slight_smile:

Prejudice and discrimination against Irish immigrants was real enough in the 19th century, but even if there ever had been real “NINA” signs or disclaimers in job advertisements, they would have been long gone by 1900, when several of America’s largest cities already had Irish or Irish-American mayors.

Speaking of Northern Ireland, they just outlawed prostitution.

A link from the great tabloid The New York Daily News, with a (SFW) picture showing some womens’ lower legs and stiletto heels.

Not exactly. They criminalised paying for sex and decriminalised selling it on the streets. Selling sex indoors will remain legal as long as you do it alone.

To make this vaguely relevant to the OP: according to an Irish sex worker I know, this law (even though it won’t come into effect until next June) is already having a reverse no-Irish-need-apply effect: migrant escorts are losing trade while Irish and British escorts are seeing an upturn, because clients assume the police won’t be concerned about the latter.

That’s why I’ll never move to N.I. In America, doing it alone has always been free.

This. Most determined by people that knew you or by your accent.

Here are a couple of lines from Pendennis, a thoroughly English novel, and it was written by Thackeray in 1848. Pendennis’s uncle and friend are discussing why they need to halt a romance between Pendennis and an Irish actress:

’ “Upon my word,” the Major answered, quite delighted, “I think you may be of very great service to me. You are a young man of the world, and with such one likes to deal. And as such I need not inform you that our family is by no means delighted at this absurd intrigue in which Arthur is engaged.”

“I should rather think not,” said Mr. Foker. “Connexion not eligible. Too much beer drunk on the premises. No Irish need apply. That I take to be your meaning.”

The Major said it was, exactly; . . .’

there’s the story of how Paddy and Seamus are working on the paving just down from the house of ill repute. They see the protestant minister walk up, look around furtively, and duck into the bawdyhouse.

“Fer shame!” says Paddy. “He’s supposed to be a minister of the cloth and all that…”

A little while later, the local rabbi does the same thing, ducks into the house. “Tsk, tsk,” says Seamus. “another weak man of the cloth!”

Not too much later, the catholic priest also comes down the street and goes into the house.

“Ahh,” says Paddy. “Some of the girls must be feelin’ poorly.”
In the Good Old Days, I’m sure name and accent was more than enough to give away country of origin. Based on the way immigrants tended to live in communities, likely even the second generation would have a trace of the old accent. Names were also a giveaway. With the massive emigration of the Irish due to the famine, a lot of the extremely poor lower class flooded the New World and probably helped contribute to the negative stereotype. In general, though, it was more of a social thing than seriously racial - at a certain point the Irish would be hard to tell from normal people :slight_smile:

However, I went to the Merchant House Museum in lower Manhattan, and they mentioned that the maids and help in the mid to late 1800s were Irish girls. So, not everyone was so dead set against Irish help. (as long as they knew their place, I suppose; and they were cheap labour)

The signs were certainly insulting but there were jobs for the Irish, anyway.

Perhaps Ye Olde Colonial Ribbon Shoppe was too snooty to hire somebody just off the boat. But those needing miners, railroad workers, scullery maids, etc., were hardly as selective.

I think that first name is far more surefire than surname.

At the Irish Cultural Center in Kansas City, there is a metal sign, which I believe was taken from a local business. The sign is either “No Irish Need Apply” or “Irish Need Not Apply”. I will send an email to my Irish language teacher tomorrow to see if she can shed a little light on its provenance and story.

I thought for sure he said “N—ers” in the movie as well.

Yeah, if you’re named stop me if I’m wrong , but if you’re named Sean or Liam you’re almost certainly Catholic and Bill, Billy, William, you’re probably not.

  1. Probably not Irish. They’re not going to do a 19th century 23andme.
  2. Possibly not.
  3. Yes.
  4. Probably related to religion.
  5. Probably you can be excluded and still be a citizen if “ethnic” enough. Or else they could just ask for your eligibility.

The old shibboleth is that the letter “H” was pronounced “aitch” by Protestants (like Americans) and “haitch” by Catholics. Don’t know if that’s still typical. Protestants love the name “Billy.”

The British had the concept of martial races. You could trust some to fight, but not raise your kids and vice versa. You’d have to subdue the first group first.

Remind me what country is the origin of the drink and it’s name again?

Damned golf-playing, underwear-lacking, smoked peat whiskey drinkers…

Interesting. So the Irish got out of that position far earlier than other, less populous groups. And if we talk about the stereotype of NINA more than other such notices now, it’s because the Irish in America are so populous, widespread, and successful, compared to Italians, Jews, Chinese, etc. in America?

I don’t really know if it is directly divided on Protestant/Catholic lines but any Irish person I know from the south says “haitch” and I have heard the “aitch” pronunciation in the north occasionally. Apparently it’s a thing in Australia too or was.

Speaking as an Irish-American… I can’t help but suspect that the “NINA” legend, while it has some small basis in reality (in the mid-19th century, the Irish were widely despised and discriminated again) is kept alive for an unfortunate reason.

When some ethnic groups are given what’s regarded as preferential treatment (affirmative action, e.g.) on the grounds that these groups have suffered in the past, other ethnic groups are likely to respond “Hey, what about US? WE suffered, too!”

The sufferings of our ancestors, therefore, sometimes becomes a game of one-upmanship. If third-generation Irish-American Jack Fitzgerald doesn’t like seeing affirmative action for blacks or Mexicans, he may grumble, “MY ancestors faced discrimination a hundred years ago too, so why should THEY get special treatment?”

Replica (if they are indeed copied from an original) metal NINA signs are a very popular item at Irish festivals in the US I’m told.