# No Libby, Libby, Libby on the stand. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 13, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099 "2007-02-13T23:33:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/1 "2007-02-13T23:33:47Z")
Defense counsel has stated that he’s not going to call Libby nor Cheney to testify for the defense in Libby’s trial. After all the bluster, all the grandstanding, we’re not going to get to hear sworn testimony from Libby or Cheney. It is an interesting piece of manuvering by defense counsel, who had represented until just recently, that both would take the stand. I’m guessing that closing arguments will be replete with objections from the government while defense counsel argues, without evidence, that Libby just plain forgot when he talked to the investigators and the grand jury. In addition, there’s the issue of the relevance of all the evidence and cross examinations, that set the stage for the faulty memory defense, only to have no relevance because Libby won’t be testifying. It was a shrewd move by defense counsel to walk that thin line between offering evidence that shows he MIGHT have forgotten, but no evidence that he actually did. The judge has taken under advisement the issues of just how far defense can go in putting evidence of Libby’s busyness (busyocity? busyable?) without having to put his guy on the stand. But mostly I’m just pissed because I wanted Libby and Cheney subjected to cross examination by Fitzgerald. Bastards stole my fun. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/2 "2007-02-13T23:42:03Z")
Yea, mine too. I chuckled at the one witness who was testifying about how forgetful Libby was, that ostensibly, you could have a conversation w/him about a subject and he’d act like it had only just occurred to him hours/days later. Saturday Night LIve did a not so funny skecth about that sort of thing “Mr. Short Term Memory” or something like that. I forget. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/3 "2007-02-13T23:59:41Z")
He shouldn’t have stood under that pear tree. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/4 "2007-02-14T00:00:13Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] Bastards stole my fun. [/QUOTE] That is sad. However, today does have a sunny side, as the Cunningham/Wilkes/Foggo scandal just picked up indictments involving [Hookers](http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002565.php). That’s always good for a media circus! ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/5 "2007-02-14T00:02:44Z")
Yesterday afternoon, Jane Hamsher, Marcy Wheeler, and Jeralyn Merritt had a discussion on PoliticsTV, mostly about the pros and cons of Cheney and Libby taking the stand. It’s about 9 minutes long, was informative (all three women have blogged extensively about the case, and Wheeler’s published a book about it) and entertaining, and can be found [here](http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/12/today-in-libby/). I’m disappointed that neither Shooter nor Scooter will take the stand, but I’m not at all surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/6 "2007-02-14T00:04:11Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] But mostly I’m just pissed because I wanted Libby and Cheney subjected to cross examination by Fitzgerald. Bastards stole my fun. [/QUOTE] Yeah, no shit. There goes the impeachment for perjury. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/7 "2007-02-14T00:05:33Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] That is sad. However, today does have a sunny side, as the Cunningham/Wilkes/Foggo scandal just picked up indictments involving [Hookers](http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/002565.php). That’s always good for a media circus! [/QUOTE] Will the circus be unbroken…? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/8 "2007-02-14T01:04:43Z")
Don’t juries tend to take a defendant’s non-testifying as evidence of guilt? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/9 "2007-02-14T01:15:51Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Don’t juries tend to take a defendant’s non-testifying as evidence of guilt? [/QUOTE] They are specifically instructed by the judge not to do that. The 5th Amendment of the Constitution guarantees the privilege against self-incrimination, which includes the decision not to testify in ones behalf. That being said, I think the jury will be surprised that Libby won’t testify about his “faulty memory”. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/10 "2007-02-14T01:48:47Z")
If I were on the jury, I would be inclined to say “Oh, he’s so busy and important and has so many responsibilities, he couldn’t remember. Poor baby. :rolleyes:” ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/11 "2007-02-14T01:50:57Z")
I was looking forward to watching it from the well. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/12 "2007-02-14T01:57:10Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] They are specifically instructed by the judge not to do that. The 5th Amendment of the Constitution guarantees the privilege against self-incrimination, which includes the decision not to testify in ones behalf. That being said, I think the jury will be surprised that Libby won’t testify about his “faulty memory”. [/QUOTE] I heard this addressed on the radio today. **Generally** taking the Fifth isn’t supposed to show guilt or but in regards to perjury it’s generally seen as the opposite. According to what I heard anyway. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/13 "2007-02-14T04:11:53Z")
A saddass setup for superior pardon down the line. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/14 "2007-02-14T13:26:54Z")
Did I hear somewhere that Libby couldn’t use the forgetfulness defense if he didn’t testify? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/15 "2007-02-14T13:30:09Z")
[QUOTE=elelle] A saddass setup for superior pardon down the line. [/QUOTE] Do you think there’s a chance in hell of Libby serving a day past January 2009? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/16 "2007-02-14T14:02:52Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe] Did I hear somewhere that Libby couldn’t use the forgetfulness defense if he didn’t testify? [/QUOTE] The judge had said that earlier, and is expected to make a more detailed ruling about what will be allowed today. I’m guessing that it will come down to allowing defense counsel to argue he MIGHT have forgotten because of all this busy, busy stuff he had to go on, but not that he DID forget. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/17 "2007-02-14T14:31:56Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] That being said, I think the jury will be surprised that Libby won’t testify about his “faulty memory”. [/QUOTE] Well, what’s the point of examining him if he has a faulty memory? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/18 "2007-02-14T14:44:29Z")
[QUOTE=Hamlet] They are specifically instructed by the judge not to do that. The 5th Amendment of the Constitution guarantees the privilege against self-incrimination, which includes the decision not to testify in ones behalf. [/QUOTE] I know all that, but still, if that’s the reason the judge gives in his instructions, is there really any way to avoid leaving them the impression that if he \*had \* testified, he \*would \* have shown his guilt? I don’t see how. Juries are human. ---
**Author:** ![elelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@elelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elelle)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/19 "2007-02-15T02:30:42Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Do you think there’s a chance in hell of Libby serving a day past January 2009? -Joe [/QUOTE] Nope. Presidental exit pardon; a stumble thumb nicked with an ill-used Boy Scout knife, a winking nod to the past honorable tradition of falling on the sword for one’s country. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-libby-libby-libby-on-the-stand/392099/20 "2007-02-15T03:58:36Z")
Can a person really act as an effective chief of staff to the vice president of the United States if he has a poor memory. VP Cheney: “Scooter, I told you to inform the president not to mention the African yellow-cake in his State of the Union address. What the fuck?” Scooter Libby: “Oops.”