# "No, Luke. \*I\* am your father." Why did we buy it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 1, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983 "2013-02-01T00:37:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/41 "2013-02-01T16:14:48Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > What are you [talking about](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE)? Wrong cite. The original misquote came from _Treasure of the Sierra Madre_. > **[Stinking badges](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges)** > > "Stinkin' badges" is a paraphrase of a line of dialogue from the 1948 film The Treasure of the Sierra Madre. That line was in turn derived from dialogue in the 1927 novel of the same name, which was the basis for the film. > In 2005, the full quote from the film was chosen as #36 on the American Film Institute list, AFI's 100 Years...100 Movie Quotes. The shorter, better-known version of the quote was first heard in the 1967 episode of the TV series The Monkees "It's a Nice Place to Visit". It w... ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/42 "2013-02-01T16:30:42Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Why? Father-son is alternating. Brother-brother is coincidal. Balance of the force requires good and evil, not just an all-good happy ending. > [@jayjay](#): > > In Bill Slavicsek’s “Guide To The Star Wars Universe”, the entry for R5-D4 notes that the R5 droid allowed R2-D2 to program its motivator to blow up. Slavicsek sources things fairly well, and he cites the _Galaxy Guide_ from the Star Wars RPG and the NPR radio dramatization of ANH, so I’d guess it’s official EU canon, at least. It’s not very good writing, though…how would R2 even know they’d need the R5 unit to malfunction? And you can’t really call it fanwankery if it’s from the radio dramatization, which was written in 1981. He didn’t know but just in case, he can manipulate the situation so that he (and C3PO) can get sold to where he wants. If Owen had picked R2 first, R5 would have been spared. > [@Arkcon](#): > > Also, right after that, Leia begins to use the Force too, to fond One-Hand-Luke clinging to bottom of Cloud City. So, we have to really buy the concept of Force powers. Before that, even at the end of the first one, we could have believed (I certainly did) that “using the Force” to take the final shot at the Death Star’s reactor wasn’t mystical, but just a believe in yourself, you have the skill, just trust in yourself and let it go and it’ll turn out right" How did Luke deflect those shots with the blast shield down, then? (Why would a helmet visor need an opaque blast shield?) Or the Jedi mind trick? Or Vader sensing Obiwan? I think the definitive force is when Luke picks things up with the force in Dagobah. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/43 "2013-02-01T16:46:27Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > How did Luke deflect those shots with the blast shield down, then? (Why would a helmet visor need an opaque blast shield?) Or the Jedi mind trick? Or Vader sensing Obiwan? Someone once noted that Vader’s sad devotion to that ancient religion hadn’t yet conjured up stuff or granted him clairvoyance. [Samuel L. Jackson] _“Well, allow me to retort!”_ [/Samuel L. Jackson] ---
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/44 "2013-02-01T17:13:17Z")
:smack: yup. that bit was pretty convincing as well, unless it was: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/0jdQqjcsfC8/hqdefault.jpg "Death Star Orientation | Robot Chicken | Adult Swim") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jdQqjcsfC8) it’s the robot chicken parody of the force choke ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/45 "2013-02-01T17:16:56Z")
I had read _Little Men_ before I saw the movie (in the theater, which shows my age), and had learned from that that “vater” was the German word for “father”. So thinking about DV afterward, I realized that “Darth Vader” meant, or at least was meant to suggest, “dark father”. ---
**Author:** ![SykoSkotty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SykoSkotty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SykoSkotty)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/46 "2013-02-01T17:38:32Z")
I was 10, and I was blown away. Totally believed it, never thought otherwise. Looking back now, it was the perfect twist in the classic “good vs evil” storyline. Luke’s our good guy, Vader’s our bad guy, and to find out they are father and son just further complicates the battle. How can I kill my own father?? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/47 "2013-02-01T17:56:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The Thulsa Doom Effect. Anything James Earl Jones says sounds inherently plausible. This also explains how Dennis Haysbert is able to sell Allstate’s shitty insurance. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Cayuga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Cayuga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cayuga)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/48 "2013-02-01T18:05:41Z")
I was _cough_21_cough_ when _TESB_ was in theaters. Most of us didn’t believe it. Old Ben had said Luke’s father was dead, and we’d believe him long before we trusted Vader. My favorite theory at the time — remembering that Leia had said to Obi-Wan, “You served with my father in the Clone Wars” — was that DV was a clone of Luke’s father. Several of us stuck with that right up until some point in the middle of _RotJ_. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/49 "2013-02-01T18:54:40Z")
> [@Cayuga](#): > > My favorite theory at the time — remembering that Leia had said to Obi-Wan, “You served with my father in the Clone Wars” — was that DV was a clone of Luke’s father. Several of us stuck with that right up until some point in the middle of _RotJ_. Nitpick she said “you served my father” and she was talking about Bail Organa(Jimmy Smitts in the PT) not Anakin. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/50 "2013-02-01T18:57:06Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Before that, even at the end of the first one, we could have believed (I certainly did) that “using the Force” to take the final shot at the Death Star’s reactor wasn’t mystical, but just a believe in yourself, you have the skill, just trust in yourself and let it go and it’ll turn out right" I think Admiral Ozzel would disagree with you. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/51 "2013-02-01T18:59:22Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > I recall one reviewer who thought Vader was lying - his theory was that Vader was Luke’s older brother, who had killed Anakin. Was it David Gerrold? I remember him suggesting this in his column in _Starlog_. I also remember thinking, “Yeah, that makes sense.” ---
**Author:** ![Billy-o](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e8c25b/32.png) [@Billy-o](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billy-o)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/52 "2013-02-01T20:17:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I figured it was true, because why on earth would anyone pretend to be related to Luke if he wasn’t? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![edwards\_beard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@edwards\_beard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/edwards_beard)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/53 "2013-02-01T21:02:49Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > No. I remember doing some contemporary fan-wankery where Vader had possibly stolen Anakin’s body at the time of the volcano-duel. We also argued that R2-D2 was the “Other Hope.” (You think it was just a coincidence that R5-D4’s motivator blew just as Luke purchased it?) My friends and I also thought that R2 was the “other hope” Yoda mentioned, only because R2 was with Luke when he was trained, so R2 picked up on the training. I also remember not believing it until Yoda confirmed it in ROTJ. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/54 "2013-02-01T22:05:28Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think Admiral Ozzel would disagree with you. Vader strangles Ozzel in “The Empire Strikes Back.” The name of the guy Vader strangles in “Star Wars” isn’t said on screen. But that’s pretty much solid proof the Force is something way past self confidence. Obi-Wan’s “Jedi mind trick” seems to go well beyond self confidence, too. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/55 "2013-02-01T22:49:09Z")
I saw it when way past 30, and I bought it. When Vader told Luke that he knew it was true Luke didn’t deny it, and they had way too much of a bond then to let Vader fool him. BTW, Leia being Luke’s sister wasn’t that much of a surprise to me. It explained why the hero was not getting the girl, as was traditional. Plus, in a biography of Lucas published a bit after Star Wars came out it was mentioned that Lucas’ very early stories involved rescuing the hero’s sister - which is what Luke does. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/56 "2013-02-01T22:54:31Z")
Note that Obi-Wan said that DV had killed Luke’s father during the Clone Wars. Apparently it was during that era that a lot of the Jedis were killed off. So what I thought at the time: Back when, the Jedi’s were dying out. Someone had the clever idea to clone them. The clones turned out to be evil (how original!), they went to war against the originals. Darth Vader was Luke’s father’s clone and killed him. So DV was sort of playing a mind game on Luke: He was in some sense Luke’s father, but not really. Enough so that Luke sensed it might be true. Set up all sorts of interesting possibilities for [del]Revenge[/del] _Return_. E.g., Luke and DV going against the Emperor. The Emperor turning out to be the clone of Obi-Wan. Etc. But they blew it. Which made _Clone Wars_ a completely uninteresting tale. And they made Obi-Wan a liar, too. (But at least my realization that Leia was the “other” was right.) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/57 "2013-02-01T23:40:56Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Father-son is alternating. Brother-brother is coincidal. Balance of the force requires good and evil, not just an all-good happy ending. The fanwank I liked (and I believe I read it on the SDMB many years ago) was that the Dark Side _was_ the imbalance, and that Vader’s rejection of the Dark Side and killing of the Emperor put an end to it, thus restoring balance. To the best of my recollection, the canon itself never uses the term “Light Side of the Force”. The term “light side” was coined by the fan base who assumed that the 'sides" of the Force represented a good/evil duality. But in reality, in the official canon, there is only “The Force” and “The Dark Side of the Force”. “The Force” is a unified whole, and the “Dark Side” is an impurity that unbalances it. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/58 "2013-02-02T00:59:30Z")
So, let me get this straight, you can buy everything else in this futuristic set of movies about intergalactic enemies and death stars and furry teddy bears with weapons, but you couldn’t buy that the guy in the black suit with respiratory issues was the father of the guy with the telekinetic super powers. I see. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/59 "2013-02-02T02:11:30Z")
Oddly, I think I bought it because Darth Vader didn’t seem like the lying type…he was a very specific kind of zealot. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983/60 "2013-02-02T04:20:32Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Plus, “Ben, why didn’t you tell me…” At least it was clear that Luke believed it, and Vader’s dialogue suggested that Luke’s feelings were more than just feelings. “Because, Luke, I am your mother.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-luke-i-am-your-father-why-did-we-buy-it/648983.md?page=4)