No mammograms until 50?

One can’t look at individuals when deciding how to design screening programs, unfortunately. They’re built to handle large numbers of people, for the net benefit to all, even though some folks will die despite/because of the screening.

The conundrum is: that for every case of breast cancer identified and intervened on in time to save a life, it appears that 10 women will have unnecessary/futile surgery, chemo and/or radiation. Some of those women will be made sick by complications of those treatments, and eventually some will die prematurely because of it.

The question is: Does that equation make sense? For every life saved from breast cancer, 10 people are damaged (at least to some extent) without benefit and perhaps one or more lives shortened.

We all have within us the seeds of our own demise. We can’t screen for everything, and the screening tests we use need to help more folks than they hurt. And be cost-effective. Spending $1 billion only for a net savings of 1 life isn’t an equation that makes sense either. We can save lots more lives with the same money just in improving childhood vaccine access.

I don’t know what the right equation is, or the right screening protocol. But we need to ask the questions, and look at the evidence, and admit it when our current protocols are questionable in their effectiveness.

But if women wait, and the cancer becomes more complicated, doesn’t that add to extra costs and “anxiety?” (Mastectomy instead of lumpectomy, possible mets, more extensive post-op treatment)

Isn’t an ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure?

**So I guess they are preparing to reduce services in case government-run health care becomes reality. **

I need to correct myself; I looked at the current membership list, not the list from the time the recommendations were made. Seven women, not eight, out of 16 panelists.

Because women like my friend Candy are in denial, and all they need to do is see a headline “Wait until you are 50…” and she would have happily filed that away as fact and not read the fine print.
If she had gone just once - and the doctor had heard her family history, she might have been talked into a regular yearly check up. Yes, it was stupid on her part to ignore the family history, but she is not the first person who put off having a check up - be it for breast cancer or men for prostate cancer - when you are afraid of getting bad news.
It would be far better to start any statement with the words, “Women with no family history, or low risk, of breast cancer might not need to get a mammogram until they are 50…”

One of my high school friends had a breast lump at age 17. There are always going to be outliers, but building an entire medical guideline around outliers doesn’t seem to be the way to go. We do want to have a starting point for any screening, and it isn’t and shouldn’t be “If you have breast tissue you need yearly/monthly/weekly/daily mammograms.” I think we would all agree that would be too far, and not have mammograms available at all for anyone is too far in the other direction. So, where should the guidelines be placed? We have the option of using scientific studies and knowing exactly what the risks and benefits are of mammograms, or we can ignore those studies and guess.

I’m in the former camp. My guesser is all worn out with trying to figure out why the cat likes to bite my toes and why my office currently smells like cookies.

I feel like I’m being asked to apologize here. Nobody is saying that younger women should not get mammograms if they feel they should. This panel is saying that overall, for the entire group of women age 40 to 49 without other risk factors, mammograms do not improve survival when the odds of finding tumors and the harm from testing and treatment is considered, and that considering the same factors, testing every other year is preferable to annual testing. It’s a much more qualified statement, even if it still comes off as callous.

For about 20 years before these new guidelines came out, the USPSTF had recommended annual mammograms for women 40 and older. The American Cancer Society still does. If you’re in denial, it is incredibly easy to find rationalizations to support your view.

It is known that some “cancers” picked up on screening will actually go away on their own if left untreated (ductal carcinoma in situ: http://www.networkofstrength.org/information/diagnosis/types/dcis.php).

I don’t know anything about the cancer that you had, Ivylass but some women go through surgery, radiotherapy and chemotherapy (all of which cause harm and may even cause death themselves) for something that would have gone away by itself.

They also then live the rest of their lives finding it difficult to get health insurance and life insurance because of their medical history, making it more difficult for them to be treated for other diseases that could kill them. They live with the fear that the cancer could come back or that their sisters or daughters might get it, and their families also live with that fear. They might even get another cancer due to the effects of radiation exposure from the scans and radiotherapy, or due to the toxic side effects of chemo. Statistically, women could (and probably do) die because they had a mammogram.

I do understand the fear and frustration for you as someone who has been diagnosed with cancer, and for those who have lost family and friends to it. However, screening has to be looked at rationally and based on evidence, otherwise it will harm more people than it saves. We don’t screen every girl from the age of 20 for breast cancer, because we know it would kill more women than it saves. There has to be a cut-off, and this report is saying that based on an evaluation of the evidence available, this cut-off should be moved.

USPSTF Mammography Recommendations Will Result in Countless Unnecessary Breast Cancer Deaths Each Year

Granted, this group (radiology professionals) has a vested interest in maintaining existing mammography schedules, but this article states that the USPSTF’s claim that their findings are not dictated by straight-forward cost-benefit analysis is just not believable.

In another peer-reviewed article from the American College of Preventative Medicine, the authors note that there are a number of reasons that might explain the observed “low” rate of success for women under the age of 50:

I guess I’m unimpressed by the cherry-picking of the data - and the apparent disregard of hundreds of actual clinical trials - to support the most “effective” (read cheapest) treatment, regardless of long range mortality or morbidity considerations.

You aren’t, and I understand the recommendation. But population stats are not individuals, and for me, an annual mammogram - even with the false positives, the risk of unnecessary procedures, brings more peace of mind than risk - I’ve watched breast cancer six too many times now. But I’m one person who’d have had them cut off if my sister had tested positive for the gene - so to me, the breasts are worth not much compared to the peace of mind.

The problem with recommendations is that they get distilled down to one sentence, and we leave out the whole idea that populations are made up of individuals - each with a different profile and unique needs.

I’ve never even gone to the dentist without filling out a family history chart that asks pretty specifically if you have any family history of breast cancer.

Rekkah, that linked article about dcis indicates 30% of women may have invasive cancer within 10 years. That’s pretty high, imo. I happen to be one who had dcis. My doctor didn’t tell me it might go away by itself. And honestly, even if I had known it might, I’m not so sure I’d want to take that chance. Would you? I had a lumpectomy and 6 weeks of radiation. For me, that was a small(er) price to pay than the risk of have cancer sometime down the road.

Regarding radiation treatment causing problems with the heart, my experience is that they aimed it so the only part of my body hit by the radiation was my breast and underarm. It did not go deep enough to affect my heart. Obviously, I can’t address anyone else’s experience.

It’s easy to paint with a broad brush, but when looked at individually, it’s difficult to say “all” women of a certain age.

I do understand where individual posters are coming from on this issue, but I’m afraid I’m still not infavour of annual mammograms for under 50s without other risk factors (and of course mammography isn’t ideal in young women anyway as the breast tissue often is too dense-ultrasound is often preferable).

I’d rather prevent cancers by reducing modifiable risk factors in ALL women.

Efforts to:
Promote breastfeeding and encourage women to continue beyond weaning (and society to accept that it is normal for children up to 2 years old to breast feed).
Reduce alcohol consumption among women
Reduce levels of obesity
would actually reduce the numbers of cancers- for example breast feeding a single child to the age of 2 can reduce your lifetime risk of breast cancer almost 10%.
That is prevention and will actually save lives.

Widening the screening net will cost money and will potentially do more harm than good. It’s not popular to say it, but screening programmes are population based and have to be designed in order to benefit the population, not the individual.

Ah, the breastfeeding thing. My sister probably got to stage II because she was breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is a double edged sword - it prevents cancer, but the changes in the breast make it difficult to detect a tumor while its there.

Breastfeeding only works if you have children to breastfeed - my cousin, a highly religious woman who does not drink at all (and never has) and worked as a fitness instructor for years (she’s also never had an extra pound on her in her life) is infertile. Her only risk factor was her mother’s cancer - but no gene exists in our family.

Again, individuals are not populations.

It’s funny that you thought that the task force was the tool of the insurance industry. I thought that it was a tool of the administration. It harkened back to one of the Clinton’s plan of the early nineties, that mammograms would be done every five years.

hh

The panel was set up by Bush. I don’t think they made a financial or political decision. In America we test a lot more than other countries. Perhaps too young and too often. We get a lot of false positives and needless procedures. What way would you accept dealing with that problem? it is a problem also because the density of breast tissue on younger women makes the test less reliable. We waste a lot of money and scare a lot of women.

It reminds me of a line from the old Burns and Allen radio show, the episodes where Gracie is running for president.

This was 1940 and there was a slogan “A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage”

Gracie says"

Now a chicken in every pot and a car in every garage sounds like a wonderful thing, unless you happen to be the chicken

And in someways this is applicable.

If you are one of the few who’s life is saved by early testing, the results of this study are not only insulting but deadly.

Apologies if this reads a bit confusing:

I wonder if they’ve done some studies (retrospective) that show the percentage of each type of mammary cancer diagnosed in women 40-49 (the disputed age).

And then, of those that they’ve found, which one of them are known to have an aggressive course and which ones are more indolent, and hence would’ve been found quietly at the first mammogram at 50. Of those indolents, would finding them earlier alter their treatment options (ie, it will be a more aggressive treatment at 50 than at a younger age).

Of those that are aggressive, if they’ve done a study that shows that earlier screening does not, overall, alter prognosis (treatment remains the same, life expectancy idem).

It seems to me they’ve been done, but they haven’t been put forward. Would be nice if they could at least be referenced in this thread (hint, hint). Sorry, but my PubMed-fu is weak and restricted to animals. :wink:

Just after I started practicing I sent a patient for a CT scan which found an incidental adrenal tumor. It was almost certainly nothing to worry about, but it required some simple urine tests and a follow-up scan a few months later, so I sat down and told him about it.

To say he freaked out is a giant understatement. My nurse and I spent the next 30 minutes trying to explain to this previously reasonable, intelligent man that the tumor was almost certainly benign, and he finally seemed to calm down enough to go home and start his urine collection.

Later that night he shot himself in the head.

So there are absolutely consequences to telling someone you need to do further tests to rule out cancer. A reaction that severe is rare, of course, but we’re talking about small numbers anyway.

The positive predictive value of mammography (that is, the percentage of people with positive mammos who actually have a malignancy) in 40-49 year olds appears to be around 2%. And mortality among those with malignancy is reduced by 15% with annual mammograms. Put these two numbers together, and 3 out of 1000 people who have positive tests actually benefit from it.

So even though complications of testing that lead to death are rare, there don’t have to be many of them to make the whole thing a wash. And you don’t just compare deaths to deaths, either–some people might have massive fits of depression, some people might lose their breasts unnecessarily, some people might get severe but nonfatal infections from the surgery or needle biopsy, etc. It’s hard to compare nonfatal complications to deaths, but epidemiologists have ways to do it.

It isn’t as simple as “do test, find cancer, save life”. It’s way, way more complicated than that.

The USPSTF has been around since 1984 in one form or another, and in its current form since 1998.

They are, by far, the most objective source out there for screening recommendations. This change is a good example, since they’ve managed to very predictably piss everybody off with it and they made it anyway.