# No means no. Fifteen year old slain. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 2, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446 "2005-04-02T21:14:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/21 "2005-04-03T06:42:28Z")
She was 15. Her parents are 32 and 34 so her dad was 19 when she was born and her mom 17. The killer is 21 and his mom is 40. So she was 19 when he was born. **Superdude** , I bet the people in the mob that were later arrested, tried, convicted and jailed for murder might be upset about the lynch mob. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/22 "2005-04-03T06:51:35Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > The 15 year-old girl’s father was knocking back a few with her 21 year-old boyfriend and saying “Yo, stop playing with a gun like that.” ? He was not her boyfriend. He was a guy who was trying to get into her pants, or a suitor, depending on which brand of language you prefer. The girlfriend cited in the article is a different girl. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/23 "2005-04-03T18:48:17Z")
> [@Victim's Father](#): > > “Also, he told my daughter `You are going to be mine, or you are going to be dead,”’ It sounds like he said this to the victim in the presence of her father (when they were knocking back a couple of beers). What kind of piece of shit human being allows this kind of piece of shit human being around their fifteen year old daughter? My daughter is not allowed to date until she turns 40 😉 . ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/24 "2005-04-04T07:32:43Z")
> [@Eyer8](#): > > It sounds like he said this to the victim in the presence of her father (when they were knocking back a couple of beers). What kind of piece of shit human being allows this kind of piece of shit human being around their fifteen year old daughter? :: shakes his head :: You get a few generations of teenagers having babies, and you see the results. Children don’t know how to raise children, or give them the guidance that they need. Thus you end up with idiots like daddy here making drinking buddies with a schizo who’s discussing plans to kill his daughter. Personally, I think daddy here deserves to be put down as well. That’s why I’m against the death penalty: I can think of way too many applications for it. ---
**Author:** ![Amberlei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Amberlei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amberlei)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/25 "2005-04-04T08:18:24Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > :: shakes his head :: > > You get a few generations of teenagers having babies, and you see the results. Children don’t know how to raise children, or give them the guidance that they need. Thus you end up with idiots like daddy here making drinking buddies with a schizo who’s discussing plans to kill his daughter. Personally, I think daddy here deserves to be put down as well. That’s why I’m against the death penalty: I can think of way too many applications for it. I’m sorry and don’t mean to hijack the thread, but it really irks me when people make such broad generalizations. Not all teenagers who have a child become irresponsible parents. I was a teen mother and feel I’ve been a much better parent than many I’ve seen who were older than me, and certainly much better than my own were. My son has developed into a somewhat irresponsible, but by no means atypical, college freshman. Life hasn’t always been as easy as it would have been if I’d had him when I was more ready, but it certainly hasn’t been unbearable. I worked two jobs on occasion, worked full time while going to school, but always made my son my first priority. I’m extremely proud of both of us but dislike generalizations as posted above because they limit people. As for the poor girl, what an utter tragedy. She certainly deserved better parents than it would appear she had, and definitely had the right to say no. I’m sure this guy will get off on an insanity plea, unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/26 "2005-04-04T08:27:52Z")
> [@Amberlei](#): > > I’m sorry and don’t mean to hijack the thread, but it really irks me when people make such broad generalizations. Not all teenagers who have a child become irresponsible parents. I was a teen mother and feel I’ve been a much better parent than many I’ve seen who were older than me, and certainly much better than my own were. My son has developed into a somewhat irresponsible, but by no means atypical, college freshman. Life hasn’t always been as easy as it would have been if I’d had him when I was more ready, but it certainly hasn’t been unbearable. I worked two jobs on occasion, worked full time while going to school, but always made my son my first priority. I’m extremely proud of both of us but dislike generalizations as posted above because they limit people. > > As for the poor girl, what an utter tragedy. She certainly deserved better parents than it would appear she had, and definitely had the right to say no. I’m sure this guy will get off on an insanity plea, unfortunately. You’re right, I shouldn’t have generalized like that. I’ve certainly known people who had kids at that age and did an excellent job of it. I didn’t mean to say it’s always that way - just that it seems to me that communities develop in which having children too young is the norm, and that it tends to lead to incompetent parenting. It’s certainly not always the case - but after a few generations of it, it happens a lot of the time. That’s not to say, though, that individual people who have kids at a young age aren’t necessarily good parents. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/27 "2005-04-04T10:39:22Z")
Excalibre, you make it sound like teenagers having kids is a relatively new thing. It’s been happening for millenia. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/28 "2005-04-04T11:22:03Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > Hey, **zetafunction** , I’m not CONDONING lynch mobs in the slightest. However, I think that, IF this guy were lynched, the only people that would shed tears would be his family. No you’re just “ashamed” that it’s gone the way of the dodo. Yeah, what every society needs is a bunch of yahoos stringing people up for crimes they think fit into the criteria were the law can be ignored. You fucking idiot. As to the OP, what a horrible incident. Let’s hope that the fuck is dealt with in such a manner that he never puts people at risk again. ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/29 "2005-04-04T13:05:24Z")
There’s no law that prevents someone from having schizophrenia and **ALSO** just being an asshole on general principles. Sounds like this guy may have achieved both. It sounds like petulance rather than psychosis that drove him. ---
**Author:** ![FordPrefect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@FordPrefect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordPrefect)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/30 "2005-04-04T22:17:48Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > You folks are right. Let’s house this guy for the remainder of time and proclaim that justice has been served. Yup. :rolleyes: In my utilitarian views, sure, he shot a 15 year old in the eye. Let the fucker rot, or execute him. It’s not like we have a shortage of nutjobs on this planet, one more or less won’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/31 "2005-04-04T23:18:19Z")
> [@Tenar](#): > > There’s no law that prevents someone from having schizophrenia and **ALSO** just being an asshole on general principles. Sounds like this guy may have achieved both. It sounds like petulance rather than psychosis that drove him. And in case there’s any doubt, I wish to second this view. If his crime wasn’t caused by his insanity and if he understands the nature and the gravity of his acts, he should be punished like everyone else would be. My point was that we should never forget the existence of treatment if treatment is relevant. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/32 "2005-04-05T13:47:53Z")
Taking all bets on how long it takes until this becomes a “ripped from the headlines” story on Law and Order: SVU. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/33 "2005-04-05T14:01:44Z")
> [@mischievous](#): > > And what the fuck were the unnamed witnesses doing while Bishop put the gun to this girl’s head **several times**? They thought it was okay because she pushed it away again? > > mischievous Some nut job is waving a gun around, I wouldn’t exactly be eager to get the business end pointed at MY face trying to stop him. That’s where you gingerly try to calm him down, while getting ready to dive out of the way if it comes your way. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/34 "2005-04-05T17:17:38Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > No you’re just “ashamed” that it’s gone the way of the dodo. > > Yeah, what every society needs is a bunch of yahoos stringing people up for crimes they think fit into the criteria were the law can be ignored. You fucking idiot. I see. I verbalize something that a good many people thought, albeit in the dark recesses of their mind, and I’m a fucking idiot? I’m not calling for mob rule. And I think that, for all intents and purposes, the judicial system is a good thing. However, given what I’ve read about this situation, I wouldn’t condone a “mob rule” mentality, but I could certainly understand where it came from. There’s no way for me to clarify my thinking to get you all to see exactly what I mean, so I’m bowing out of this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Dob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b2d939/32.png) [@Dob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dob)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/35 "2005-04-05T17:30:58Z")
/hijack youjimbo your an ass. superdude was just making a point that the man deserves harsh punishment for what he did. I dont think he was really calling for lynching to become common place again. There is a well used device used in writing called “imagery”. A writer, to sometimes drive a point home, will call up a visual image in a readers mind to better show what he/she is tyring to say. so stop being such an asshole. /hijack ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446/36 "2005-04-11T11:10:33Z")
> [@Dob](#): > > /hijack > > youjimbo your an ass. superdude was just making a point that the man deserves harsh punishment for what he did. I dont think he was really calling for lynching to become common place again. There is a well used device used in writing called “imagery”. A writer, to sometimes drive a point home, will call up a visual image in a readers mind to better show what he/she is tyring to say. so stop being such an asshole. > > /hijack The image it brought up in my mind was one of him being ashamed that some fucknugget who did a horrible thing couldn’t be lynched. In my world that makes him a dick. YMMV naturally. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-fifteen-year-old-slain/297446.md?page=1)