# No Means NO You Sick Old Pervert! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 9, 2003, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309 "2003-11-09T23:47:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/41 "2003-11-10T22:00:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > \*\*This guy has, apparently, been trying to hit on/seduce the cute, perky 19/20 year old desk girls. Been telling one of them (at least) “ditch XXX (her 20 year old boyfriend), you can do a lot more with me 'cause I have money and I’m more than he’ll ever be.” \*\* \*"You think you’re gonna take her away With your money and your cocaine Keep thinkin’ that her mind is gonna change But I know everything is okay She’s gonna listen to her heart It’s gonna tell her what to do She might need a lot of lovin’ But she don’t need you"\* _Listen To Her Heart_ - Tom Petty ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/42 "2003-11-10T22:44:43Z")
Well, **Lynn** has said that mace is okay to go with. If the girls are looking to get some mace, I would suggest [this place.](http://piratescove.safeshopper.com/40/1080.htm?830) ---
**Author:** ![Neidhart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Neidhart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neidhart)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2003, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/43 "2003-11-10T23:46:06Z")
Creeps like that never change. I’d bet all my money he’s committed date/acquaintance rape more than once. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/44 "2003-11-11T00:18:07Z")
I am not a lawyer, but I am an employer who knows that you have to be proactive to protect your employees…you have alot of resources at your disposal, consult your sheriff and lawyer pilots to make this airtight…You want to effectively and legally REMOVE this A-Hole off of public property without harm to either party (girls or A-Hole…and trust me, you don’t want to hurt A-Hole unless you’re begging to be sued!) My Solution: 1. Cameras and video equipment Post signs “Surveilence equipment for your protection”. It is to protect everyone, customers, employees and managers alike. Put sign in conspicuous place where A-hole can read it or choose to ignore it. Do not be covert about the equipment - be outright with it - it will give you better legal standing and A-Hole can’t alledge that he was set up. Another camera in the parking lot is not a bad idea either; it doesn’t matter whether the girls are being escorted or not to the car. The manager actually does have a pivotal role for ensuring the safety of his/her employees and is liable for potential problems that he has knowledge of and doesn’t make a good faith effort to respond to improve the safety of any employee in his charge. I would hate to see this A-Hole get physical and the women ending up suing the employer/manager for not taking steps to eliminate the harassment. If A-hole remains an A-hole, you have tape of any and all incidents so you can… 1. File a restraining order Consult your pilot-attorneys and ask what actions A-hole has to do to make a legal restraining order stick. Also find out how it will affect A-hole’s lease and partnership with his group of cronies that share the plane with him. If the employees are granted a restraining order, give a copy to the other owners of the plane and explain to them what legal issues might arise if this A-hole continues to be a partner of that group. They may do the job for you and buy him out and give him the boot. If not, and A-Hole continues with the harassment… 1. Get A-Hole arrested. Your Sheriff-pilot will tell you what limits must be crossed in order for A-Hole to get arrested. With a restraining order in place, I’m guessing it won’t take much. He may actually back-off, and that’s great, just don’t give the girls pepper spray and let them decide when to apply it – spraying it on an older man may cause serious injury or breathing issues that he might not recover from and then the girls are in big trouble. If he isn’t a physical threat, then I would not have them wielding any type of weapons. 1. Get A-Hole banned from the airport. If he’s been arrested, then chances are that he can be banned from the airport as a security risk when interfering with airport employees. Again, lawyer-pilots gave their support - have the girls use it. Also, keep A-Hole’s partners informed so they will have to make appropriate changes to keep their lease valid. If the lease is coming up, have your lawyer-pilots modify the lease agreement to include that the owners/pilots of the plane that will be in leased hangar must be security cleared by local authorities (or some other language - IANAL) so management has an out to boot the leasees when A-Hole does the inevitable. If they didn’t see this coming by now (by foolishly keeping A-Hole in the partnership), then they deserve to be booted as well. There are other options: 1a. Wait for A-Hole to die at an old age…not a good option. Pro-active is the key word here. The girls can only take so much of A-Hole’s crap and may get bitter or quit…a constuctive discharge will easily be granted in this case, if not a lawsuit. I’d let the manager/owner (Feds, State, local gvt. - whoever owns it) know that they are on the hook here to do something about it. ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/45 "2003-11-11T03:10:54Z")
IANAL but have taken mind-numbing amounts of training on sexual harrassment. (Which of course makes me a _slightly_ informed doofus, so check w/ real legal counsel, but…) Who actually employs the two young girls? An employer is _obligated_ to protect employees against harrassment, even from customers, vendors, etc. If the airport is the employer and receives any governmental funding I strongly suspect there are all sorts of obligations not being met. In fact an employer who fails to protect employees will be found at fault. The bar is set very high, in fact. Employers don’t even have to be _told_ about situations to held responsible. The reasoning is that they are responsible for controlling the work environment. If they aren’t aware of a problem, they should be. Again, I know diddly about airports but I run a public, tax-funded agency. We can, have and will 1. eject and ultimately 2. trespass members of the public for inappropriate behavior, and that includes harrassing the staff. Consult legal counsel but at the very least: [ul] 1. Have as many people as possible write signed statements/reports about what they’ve actually witnessed the geriatric horndog do or say 2. Have the supervisor formally advise the creep (in front of witnesses) that his behavior is inappropriate 3. Have the supervisor tell the creep, very clearly, that the behavior is to STOP, immediately and for good. Putting him formally on notice is important. 4. Advise him of the consequences if he pulls the crap again, starting with being told to leave the premises. If he refuses to leave or becomes abusive, the police will be called to escort him out. If it happens again, he will be trespassed, either for a set amount of time (a few months?) or permanently. 5. But document, document, document. [/ul] Public places don’t carry entitlements to harrass people. If your airport family can and will document his pattern of inappropriate behavior, my guess is you have some solid legal recourses available to you right at hand. Good luck on this one. He’s sounds like a maggot. Veb ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/46 "2003-11-11T11:01:41Z")
All you folks outlining various steps… what makes you think they haven’t been taken already? Management has been informed. Asshole has been warned. Now we have to see if the warning sticks. THEN we move on to the next step. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/47 "2003-11-11T11:23:11Z")
I’ll echo **Broomstick** ’s sentiments. There are some men who simply do not get it. I’ve encountered at least 3 of them, one of whom was fired because of what he did to me. None of them ever offered an explanation, and one of the Great Mysteries of Life™ is what was running through what passes for their brains. So, **Broomstick** , I take it in a week or so, I’ll be reading that this fellow is in jail or banned from airport property? That or other things which I won’t discuss in the Pit. CJ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/48 "2003-11-11T13:24:29Z")
Current regulations might prevent these women from carrying mace or pepper spray in the airport, so that might not be an option. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/49 "2003-11-11T13:24:44Z")
What Veb says. IAAL. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/50 "2003-11-11T20:51:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > \*\*All you folks outlining various steps… what makes you think they haven’t been taken already? > > Management has been informed. Asshole has been warned. Now we have to see if the warning sticks. THEN we move on to the next step. \*\* Um, I don’t know…maybe by you not telling us what steps the airport management has taken thus far? You are too focused on what the “community” thinks and might do to this A-Hole and not what steps management has taken to usher this guy out the door without serious consequences to all parties involved. Sorry if I stepped on your toes and tried to lend you some advice. Since this is in the Pit, I should have realized that it’s all about venting and not about actively pursuing advice. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/51 "2003-11-12T02:13:42Z")
Yeah, it’s mostly about venting. As I said, I’m not too worried about the girls. What I _am_ worried about it a couple of my friends letting their tempers get the better of them and winding up in cuffs because they beat the living snot out of Asshole. THAT’s what I’m concerned about. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Mr. Moto_ > Current regulations might prevent these women from carrying mace or pepper spray in the airport, so that might not be an option. Good point, but it doesn’t apply. This isn’t a big commercial hub, it’s a small community airport. Different rules apply. No baggage screeners, no metal detectors. Not that we encourage weaponry on the premesis, but there’s no rule against it. As a private citizen with a pilot license flying my own plane (or a rented one) there is no law or regulation preventing me from strapping on a couple of pistols before entering the cockpit. At least for now. Now, if I flew into a big hub, yeah, they’d confiscate the weapon. Hell, shortly after 9/11 some jackass tried to confiscate the _fire extinguisher_ from my rental plane. Really, flying my own plane is a lot like driving my own car (except the plane is the better off-road vehicle). I mean, it’s never been a case where I go to adjust the trim wheel, look at my co-pilot, and say “Hey, Zeke, you want to make sure the safety is on that thing and maybe you put it in the back until we land?” but it’s conceivable. Rumor has it in some parts of Alaska small plane pilots are _required_ to carry guns as survival equipment. So, yeah, there’s no obstacle to issuing mace to the girls. Except, of course, gassing the customers isn’t very good service, and Asshole would probably sue. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by Siege_ > So, Broomstick, I take it in a week or so, I’ll be reading that this fellow is in jail or banned from airport property? That or other things which I won’t discuss in the Pit. I’m kinda hoping he just gets lost or finds some trouble elsewhere to get into. I don’t think we could ban him that quick. Old guy in jail - even an Asshole - isn’t really that wonderful a senario. Other people in jail isn’t a pleasent thought, either. He’s probably been doing this shit for years - just wish someone had confronted him a long time ago. Sometimes, telling the guy he’s a jackass multiple times works. Sometimes it doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/52 "2003-11-12T17:06:30Z")
Thanks, **Veb** , for going into detail about the who, what, and how regarding protection against sexual harassment under these circumstances, and thanks, **Muffin** , for confirming what Veb said. It’s good to know that there’s a procedure to be followed to make Asshole Gramps either stay in line or get kicked out, without recourse to violence or physical intimidation. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/53 "2003-11-12T17:29:16Z")
I suffered from nasty ass bosses in the past who had a problem with itchy hands and the delusion that they were actually attractive to the poor females who were forced into close contact with them. Being reasonably ancient, this was long before sexual harrassment was considered a legimate complaint in the bar/restaurant business. What I did, and what these young woman could do, if they’re not especially shy is create a huge damn scene when the evil grampa starts. Public humilation works wonders. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/54 "2003-11-13T10:57:23Z")
Oh, you mean something along the lines of EWWWWWWWWWWWWW! You’re old enough to be my dad! EWWWWWWWWWWW! You’re _older_ than my dad! EWWWWWWWWWWW! Gross! I can’t believe you’re asking me that! EWWWWWWWWWW! Yeah, they’ve been doing that. Helps they’ve got some lung power when they need it. Maybe that’s why he switched to the phone? Public humiliation? ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/55 "2003-11-13T11:31:59Z")
> [@](#): > > ## quote: > > ## Originally posted by spooje\* That’s legal, right? Are businesses under any obligation to do business with loathsome individuals? > > In the case of aviation, yes, you are under some obligation. You can’t keep anyone out of a public use airport. Denying services such as fuel or needed maintenance can pose a safety hazard not only to Asshole but to possible innocent parties in or in the vicinity of him and his airplane. (If he runs out of fuel because we wouldn’t sell him any and he take off, then runs out of gas, he might fall on someone’s house) Well then. We’ll just have to beat him senseless. How’s next Thiursday for everybody?? ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/56 "2003-11-13T12:13:33Z")
Sounds good to me. If this guy just won’t back off, then it might be time for some considered and judicious application of shoe-leather… ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/57 "2003-11-13T14:03:25Z")
Lesee, everyone at the airport plus the 40,000 of us…yes, I think we can convey a suitable message if we move in force…yessssss. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/58 "2003-11-13T15:07:42Z")
That’s exactly what I mean, **Broomstick**. Now the next step is to put him on the speaker phone and shout out loudly everytime he calls "Hey that nasty old fart is on the phone again-wanna listen? " ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/59 "2003-11-13T16:35:11Z")
I like **Broomstick** ’s description a lot. Especially if it’s used in combination with a video camera to document the guy’s behavior. Think about it: This is the sort of video you’ll be playing again and again! In court, as evidence for a restraining order! In court again, when he breaks the order! Aviation community holiday parties! Private screening for his wife! Put it on the internet and let us _all_ laugh at him! Actually, to follow up on some of that… how about if the aviation community holds a holiday party, by invitation only, and leaves this guy out? Then post the party photos where everybody will see them. Of course, the subtle techniques may not work. This guy sounds three clues short of a murder mystery. He may need direct methods, like a restraining order, or **spoojie** ’s (hopefully not serious) idea. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2003, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309/60 "2003-11-13T16:42:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Scuba\_Ben \* > \*\* Private screening for his wife! \*\* > _edited by **Bosda** _ Ah! Out of the mouths of babes! Wifey is key. A few phone calls, & she’ll get him in line. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-means-no-you-sick-old-pervert/212309.md?page=4)