# No more Aunt Jemima **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 17, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850 "2020-06-17T14:57:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/41 "2020-06-17T20:42:46Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > You want some great tasting instant rice? Buy Uncle Ben’s. Need syrup for you pancakes? Aunt Jemima is a good choice. These were positive images of hard working people at a time when most people of color were often portrayed in media as imbeciles (Amos & Andy) or violent criminals (the news). I think a lot of people disagree with the idea that it was good that the only semi-positive images of black people that you could find were racist caricatures taken from a minstrel show who were servile domestic servants to white families. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/42 "2020-06-17T20:49:47Z")
It will be interesting to see how Quaker will sell maple flavoured HFCS in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/43 "2020-06-17T20:54:35Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > [Would Geoffrey Holder’s 1983 7-Up commercials](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbV0BjzPeY) be acceptable in 2020? What would make them unacceptable? They show a black guy looking sophisticated pitching the drink. He’s not playing a caricature based on minstrel shows or copying the dialect meant to portray blacks as uneducated, and he’s not bowing and scraping to a white family. Aunt Jemima is not going away just because ‘oh a black person in a commercial’, she’s going away because she’s based on a degrading stereotype that came out of shows dedicated to celebrating white supremacy. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/44 "2020-06-17T20:57:29Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s interesting that for over 75 years these brands were the only black symbols for product placement. > > I remember in my childhood there weren’t any people of color used in advertising. It was a sea of white faces and white product branding. Or animals like Tony the Tiger. > > You want some great tasting instant rice? Buy Uncle Ben’s. Need syrup for you pancakes? Aunt Jemima is a good choice. These were positive images of hard working people at a time when most people of color were often portrayed in media as imbeciles (Amos & Andy) or violent criminals (the news). > > It wasn’t perfect but at least there was representation of a minority in the marketplace. I grew up in Massachusetts in the early 60"s and remember asking my parents why the lady on the bottle didn’t look like us. I didn’t know any black kids until elementary school. But my parents had explained they were no different than us and should be shown respect. > > Now decades later society wants to vent its awakened anger in every direction. It’s their choice, but I think their anger is a bit misguided. > > I understand by today’s standards the products seem dated. So does the Quaker Oats guy on the oatmeal box. > > I hope the rebranding retains some link to the past. It’ll be interesting to see what happens. I was embarrassed by the images of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben when I was a kid. I’m older than you. Were/are you really this clueless? > [@](#): > > I hope the rebranding retains some link to the past. Yes, I guess you \* are\* this clueless. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/45 "2020-06-17T21:09:11Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > [Would Geoffrey Holder’s 1983 7-Up commercials](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUbV0BjzPeY) be acceptable in 2020? > > On the one hand, so far as I’m aware Holder’s Trinidadian accent is natural\*\*. On the other hand, he seems to be playing a character. Does it help that the character Holder plays in the commercial is unnamed? > \*\* _Holder was born and raised in Trinidad, living there at least through college._ Well, you can imagine how that slogan got real popular among the teasing between high school kids. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/46 "2020-06-17T21:14:54Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > What would make [Holder’s 7-Up commercials] unacceptable? They show a black guy looking sophisticated pitching the drink. He’s not playing a caricature based on minstrel shows or copying the dialect meant to portray blacks as uneducated, and he’s not bowing and scraping to a white family. I understand that the 7-up commercials in question are not comparable to the Aunt Jemima branding, most especially in historical context. What I’m more wondering is whether or not Holder IS playing a stereotype or a caricature, after all, even if not one ingrained in America’s sociocultural history. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/47 "2020-06-17T21:26:12Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I was embarrassed by the images of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben when I was a kid. I’m older than you. Were/are you really this clueless? > Yes, I guess you \* are\* this clueless. It wasn’t uncommon in 1961 for children to have no close contact with minorities. Especially if you lived in the East or mid West. I did meet a few minorities in my elementary school and made a few friends. We played together during recess. There wasn’t any in my neighborhood and I can’t recall any minorities in my Church Sunday school classes. I’m glad schools had ended segregation. Otherwise I would have been much older before getting this experience. Moving to Arkansas was quite a shock. I had never seen that many minorities in one place before. I’d guess it was at least 30% black at my southern school. The world has changed significantly for the better since my childhood. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/48 "2020-06-17T21:28:07Z")
duplicate ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/49 "2020-06-17T21:34:18Z")
I’m surprised to see the company take such decisive action. I thought they would have waffled on the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/50 "2020-06-17T21:43:20Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It’s interesting that for over 75 years these brands were the only black symbols for product placement. > > I remember in my childhood there weren’t any people of color used in advertising. It was a sea of white faces and white product branding. Or animals like Tony the Tiger. There were some black symbols in products in years gone by, and they weren’t always very nice. I don’t know the vintage, but there really was a Picaninny Freeze Watermelon Seeds (it was a brand of ice cream apparently). The containers and advertising signs are collectors items now, to be found e.g. at on-line auction sites. (ETA: The page does too mention the vintage. It was 1927.) Photo: [Picaninny Freeze](https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-original-picaninny-freeze-ice-439295191) cover art.These are real. I’ve seen them for sale in antique stores. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/51 "2020-06-17T21:44:16Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I’m surprised to see the company take such decisive action. > > I thought they would have waffled on the issue. _rimshot_ What’ll actually be interesting to see is if Pepsico (which now owns Quaker Oats) is able to enforce these changes on the frozen products. Quaker sold off their frozen business, including the rights to make frozen pancakes, waffles, and French toast under the Aunt Jemima brand, in 1996 (just before I joined the company). It’s changed hands several times since then, and those products are now made by ConAgra, which, I would imagine has some sort of a licensing deal with Pepsico for continued use of the brand name and logo. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/52 "2020-06-17T21:57:57Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > _rimshot_ > > What’ll actually be interesting to see is if Pepsico (which now owns Quaker Oats) is able to enforce these changes on the frozen products. > > Quaker sold off their frozen business, including the rights to make frozen pancakes, waffles, and French toast under the Aunt Jemima brand, in 1996 (just before I joined the company). It’s changed hands several times since then, and those products are now made by ConAgra, which, I would imagine has some sort of a licensing deal with Pepsico for continued use of the brand name and logo. How well is the Aunt Jemima brand doing in its market? Unless it still comprises a significant share, PepsiCo may just decide to get out of the pancake mix/syrup business altogether because the product line has too much negative baggage attached to it no matter how it’s rebranded. ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/53 "2020-06-17T21:58:23Z")
SNL’s Chris Rock (as “Nat X”) once expressed his enjoyment of something by saying, “I haven’t had so much fun since Aunt Jemima took that rag off her head!”, referring to the update of the logo from [this](https://digitalgallery.bgsu.edu/student/files/original/eb80ea62ce681a72bed036c5cab77f9a.jpg) to [this.](https://global.oup.com/us/companion.websites/fdscontent/uscompanion/us/images/9780199315468/6_aunt_jemima_files/image002.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/54 "2020-06-17T22:11:39Z")
> [@NDP](#): > > How well is the Aunt Jemima brand doing in its market? Unless it still comprises a significant share, PepsiCo may just decide to get out of the pancake mix/syrup business altogether because the product line has too much negative baggage attached to it no matter how it’s rebranded. It’s one of the market leaders, as it has been for many decades, in both syrups and mixes. When PepsiCo bought Quaker, in 2001, the primary reason that they did so was to get Gatorade, which was, at that time, generating double-digit sales gains every year, and essentially was a license to print money. Quaker had been the subject of a bidding war between PepsiCo and Coca-Cola for a year or more, as both of those companies lusted after Gatorade. At the time of the sale, a lot of us figured that PepsiCo would quickly turn around and sell off Quaker’s food businesses, as they didn’t seem to be a good fit with the rest of Pepsico’s business. But, other than a couple of small ancillary lines (like the bagged cereal business), PepsiCo has hung onto all of it, for nearly two decades now. I hypothesize that at least part of that is to allow PepsiCo to tout some of its “better for you” products (like Quaker Oatmeal), as a counterbalance to their snack foods and sodas. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/55 "2020-06-17T22:09:57Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I was the market research manager on Aunt Jemima for a couple of years in the late '90s. And, yes, they had updated the logo’s look in the 1980s – they took the bandana off her head, and gave her earrings and a necklace. I remember some man-in-the-street reporting from the time where some citizen said to the effect of, “come on, that’s not Aunt Jemima, you’ve turned her into some sort of yuppie who’d need to use the instant mix.” And yes eyes rolled even then. Goes to show though how valuable is brand recognition goodwill – I would have otherwise expected kept expecting the brands to redo the names (such as becoming Jemi’s and just “UB”) and lose the avatars completely years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/56 "2020-06-17T22:26:32Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > … the update of the logo from [this](https://digitalgallery.bgsu.edu/student/files/original/eb80ea62ce681a72bed036c5cab77f9a.jpg) to [this.](https://global.oup.com/us/companion.websites/fdscontent/uscompanion/us/images/9780199315468/6_aunt_jemima_files/image002.jpg) Note that the new Aunt Jemima is lighter skinned than the old Aunt Jemima. I have no idea what that means but I bet it was no accident. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2020, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/57 "2020-06-17T22:48:10Z")
I’m always amazed what right wingers decide to get upset about instead of social injustice. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/58 "2020-06-18T00:00:35Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > There were some black symbols in products in years gone by, and they weren’t always very nice. I don’t know the vintage, but there really was a Picaninny Freeze Watermelon Seeds (it was a brand of ice cream apparently). The containers and advertising signs are collectors items now, to be found e.g. at on-line auction sites. > > (ETA: The page does too mention the vintage. It was 1927.) > > Photo: > > [Picaninny Freeze](https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-original-picaninny-freeze-ice-439295191) cover art.These are real. I’ve seen them for sale in antique stores. How about [Darkie toothpaste](https://www.inkstonenews.com/china/how-darkie-toothpaste-became-top-selling-darlie-brand-despite-racist-blackface-branding/article/2177249)? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/59 "2020-06-18T00:13:45Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I was embarrassed by the images of Aunt Jemima and Uncle Ben when I was a kid. I’m older than you. Were/are you really this clueless? Growing up, Aunt Jemima was just some nice lady who wanted to feed me delicious pancakes. While I knew Aunt Jemima’s look from my childhood was outdated, I had no inkling that her origins were that of the black domestic servant until I was in my early thirties and had acquired my history degree. I can understand why some people don’t like the image and why it’s been abandoned. But for a lot of people I suspect they’re confused. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2020, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850/60 "2020-06-18T00:33:04Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > How about [Darkie toothpaste](https://www.inkstonenews.com/china/how-darkie-toothpaste-became-top-selling-darlie-brand-despite-racist-blackface-branding/article/2177249)? One of the reasosns I wanted to post was to mention Darkie toothpaste. That and all kinds of cruel stereotypes can be found at any decent antique show. Mostly, they’re just worth a few bucks. The other reason was to speak against people buying AJ and UB thinking they’ll really be worth something someday. I feel confident they won’t be. Yes, there are some exceptions (The Aunt Jemima cookie jars that came out when my mother was young, for example). But mostly you’ll have preserved a bit of racism so it can be worth $5 more than you paid for it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-aunt-jemima/855850.md?page=4)