No more banner ads for subscribers

Ed, thank you for the info.

A lot of the ideas you (and some of the previous posters) brought up are good, especially the basic two-tier system idea.

I sould like to say however that I think you, personally, should have addressed the issue about 24 hours earlier than you did – could have cut down a lot of the angst.

And you still need to work on the way some of the Administrators address people (yes, I’m still hurting from Tuba’s remark in my ATMB thread. It was snarky and uncalled for, an no clarification has been forthcoming.)

Meh. Thanks to the recent boneheaded behavior from TPTB, prob damn near every member and guest of the STMB has learned to use (and love) adblockers. Most of these people apparently either didn’t know they existed or didn’t understand how easy they were to use.

They do now.

Having or not having ads on the site doesn’t matter anymore. The vast majority won’t even see them. Good job there, Chicago Reader! :smack:

I didn’t see Jerry’s original post. He changed it. I did see Tuba’s, though. She thought it was temporary, so I guess it’s safe to assume Jerry did too, and told her so. Unless he’s lying, which probably isn’t the case. I mean, it’s just a job to him, so what would motivate him to cover anything up? I think we have to assume it was Pat, and that Pat didn’t think it through.

Maybe it went down something like this:

Pat: Jeffy, when you get a chance, turn the ads on for guests and let’s see if it increases our revenue.

Jerry: The name’s Jerry. Okay, let me see what I can do.

[Jerry fiddles with the thing, finds out that turning them on just for guests is problematic because of some bug in vBulletin. He posts his announcement, turning them on for everyone, and dicks with it for a while. Boss passes by.]

Pat: How’s it going, Jimmy?

Jerry: The name’s Jerry, sir. I’m having some problems. I had to turn the ads on for everybody so I could do some debugging.

Pat: Ah, hell. Just leave 'em on. What harm could it do?

[Jerry changes his announcement and leaves the ads on.]

NEXT DAY…

Pat: Jesus! What the hell happened? Why is Ed barking at me?

Jerry: Sir, for cryin’ out loud, my name is Jerry.

To be honest, if maximizing revenue is the name of the game for the CR (and why shouldn’t it be?), get rid of the concept of “subscribe to not see ads” altogether and try to gain subscriptions through board features.

(And yes, I am aggressively campaigning for “irritating poster of the year who should just shut the F*** up” award. Why’d you ask? :wink: )

Put me down as another member who thinks the two-tier approach sounds like a good idea and who is relieved that this situation has been brought to an all around satisfactory conclusion.

But I want to thank you too, Ed, for that wonderful post. It’s heartening to know that CL views the SDMB as a valuable asset and one which they are wanting to see grow, and to understand more thoroughly the inner workings of the board and the financial challenges it has to deal with. I think this insight makes it easier for everyone to empathize with the challenges faced by those of you who are running this place, and to feel better knowing that the Dope is cared about and regarded as a valuable asset by CL.

Again, thanks.

Word, JohnT.

The two-tiered system is a great idea, one that was expressed by several dopers back when the P2P nonsense was originally implemented.

One thing I disagree with though that has been mentioned several times: I still think the dope is missing out on a bonanza of traffic by making searching the database a subscriber perk only. Think of how many topics have been covered over the years here. It’d be easier to make a list of what hasn’t been touched on. People all over the internets are searching for these topics every day, and ending up elsewhere because the SDMB doesn’t allow search engines to index the site. Unblock the search engines, turn off the vBulletin search functionality, and allow everyone to use Google to search the site. That’ll take some strain off the server (and cut the database size WAY down), and ensure more and more people see what the SDMB has to offer.

Also, regarding ads, the best bet is to show them to guests and non-paying registered members, as mentioned. However, ads alone are not enough to drive a lot of people to subscribe. Plenty of users are numb to ads anyway and won’t be bothered. Others will just block them, as mentioned. So you should consider adding other perks to the paid subscriber level. Perhaps subscribers could have:

  • Access to private messaging
  • Signature lines
  • Pictures in their profile
  • Avatars

Just spitballing here. And I know avatars are a dirty word to many here, but if you don’t want to see them, you can disable their display in your User CP. They are inarguably a draw for subscribers (many of the subscribers on my site did so for the avatars and custom titles) so it may be something to consider here.

Thanks.

Thanks, Ed

Something every company could stand to unlearn is that old adage that the customer is always right. The average customer will gleefully grind you into the ground. However, in place of this unwisdom, every company should learn to treat customers as partners. As people worthy of honesty and respect, if not people who should have every whim indulged. You have already figured out that springing additional advertising on paying customers is not the way to go.

There is something else about the tone of you message that I want to comment on. I’ve seen it before in other contexts, and it almost always means trouble. You don’t know who I am or what I know about such things, but I’d ask you to trust me on this.

CL is telling us, the customers, that they have to find some way to make money. That’s axiomatic. It’s a business, is it not? The troubling part is that we are already customers. We’ve done our bit to help the SDMB succeed. Even if things are tough, we should get some small thanks, not a woeful story and the message that what we have done so far has not been enough. People in charge of companies that successful turn around always have one thing in common: They take responsibility for their destinies no matter what obstacles are presented to them. They never waste time lamenting their predicament.

That’s not what I’m seeing here. CL has ownership of a great site in a new media market. There are dozens of avenues that can be investigated for growing it and capitalizing on it. It should be an exciting time. But banner ads for paying customers? Not only is that a bad idea from a customer service point of view, it’s an idea that lacks any degree of imagination. It’s “newspapers, but on a ‘puter” thinking. It’s not even banging two rocks together. And when it fails, instead of, “Sorry guys! We appreciate you and we are committed to making this place better than ever!” we get, “But we gotta make money somehow.”

I’m not optimistic for the future of the SDMB. Please surprise me.

Waverly

BWAHAHAHA.

Stop…you’re killin’ me!

It a fabulous idea. It seems vaguely familiar though. Where have I heard it before?

Oh yeah, from about a hundred of us when P4P was first announced three years ago. We also collectively suggested adding Google ads and banner ads for all to find out if that would work before we went P4P and were told that it wasn’t possible.

Got my vote.
Just kidding you raise some good points, but the members do generate the content, so the owners need to take a small hit in ad revenue to keep the members happy. Besides, I think most new members won’t bother paying not to see ads, but might pay for many of the other perks mentioned throughout this thread.
Your numbers were apparently off by a factor of ten. Ed mentioned that it was “typically $1 per thousand impressions”.

So you’ll see that buying off the ads is cost effective for the owners.

Jim

Thanks to Ed for posting an explanation and fighting for the ads getting turned off.

Upgrading the hamsters is always a good idea. But, I would be afraid of upgrading the hamsters to accommodate the new traffic load, but still having the search-slow-down issue. Pleasepleaseplease make that issue priority one.

Like many others, I would pay more for the option of customizing my label.

Thanks again
-Geek

Well, it’s good to know that the new owners appear to realise that they won’t make any money off a community by ring-fencing and milking it; a potential move back to free-to-post is the best news I’ve heard here in a while. It’s also somewhat relieving to know that they’ve realised that alienating the long-term members isn’t a brilliant idea, even if belatedly.

I have to say I’m skeptical that the banner ad market is going to be a long-term winner, though. Adblocking technology is well on its way to ubiquity, and honestly, I don’t know any bugger who buys stuff from them anyway. Advertisers are starting to get much sneakier about stuff; those hideous keyword-highlighting things, for example. But getting more prevalent is social stuff; MySpace campaigns, Facebook applications (and that godawful Beacon thing they just implemented). It’s hard to see how the SDMB could easily get in to that sort of thing within the context of a simple messageboard, but if it’s really serious about making money off a community while not pissing it off, then it seems to me that some real thought should be put into that end of things.

Banners are a highly unaesthetic and vastly inefficient advertising method that I’m sure will never entirely go away, but are IMO likely to end up in the category of through-the-door flyers and under-the-windscreen-wiper leaflets; high volume, low effectiveness, low revenue. Other companies have realised this, and are seeking better ways to advertise more effectively, without pissing people off with animations and noise. Creative Loafing must surely realise this, as (apparently) a devoutly New Media company.

I’d like to see this place become much more than a messageboard, myself. There are far more modes of interaction possible in an ostensibly intellect-oriented community than mere flat-threaded conversations allow. You could have collaborative article writing (including much more community interaction with Staff Reports), digg/technorati-style community feedback, ratings etc., localised content like city-oriented restaurant or gig recommendations, the list goes on. In particular I think with a global membership like this board has, the localised features could be very interesting. There’s also been interest expressed by some in dating features, and I see other Creative Loafing websites do indeed have “Creative Loving” entries; presumably furnished by a third party online dating provider, but still, it’s an example of the general sort of thing I mean. Anyway, the point is that with an increased level of interaction, advertising becomes commensurately more valuable, as it can be made more specific, benefiting both users and owners.

Obviously, this would all take a significant amount of customised software, and I don’t get the impression (looking at Creative Loafing’s other online efforts) that this is necessarily a strength of the company. I do think that relying on banner revenue for any significant length of time is a mistake, however, and that some real work will have to be put in to keep the community interesting over and above just restoring free-to-post. The internet is moving on, and while it’s definitely got a lot going for it, the SDMB is looking like a bit of a dinosaur. It needs to take a hint or two from some of the innovation going on elsewhere, or it really is just going to dwindle away to not very much. More importantly, the owners need to realise that new features are the only way to really make it grow, and that they’re not carrots to be grudgingly and biennially bestowed on the existing members to stop them fucking off. If they really do think this is one of the best assets of the Chicago Reader, then they need to stop running the place as if they were doing the users a favour by doing so.

Hell, missed that part. What can I say - I saw numbers and started computing. :stuck_out_tongue:

A lot of people here have expressed that they would pay more to keep this place alive. Do you realize that you can do that now? Go to the main page and buy a case of coffee mugs or t-shirts. When you get them, donate them to the Goodwill and get a tax write off to partially offset the cost of your donation. Be sure to mention that you are a Doper when you make your purchase.

Thank you! :slight_smile:

Damn, that was a good post, Dead Badger. Lots to think about there.

I like the two-tiered approach also, and I agree that we need more perqs for paid subscribers than just the lack of ads. I’m of two minds regarding searching (if we allow everyone to search, we’ll get fewer repeated questions, for one thing), but I like most of Slacker’s suggestions.

Except avatars.

If TPTB even consider adding avatars, then item #1 on the list of requirements should be that paying subscribers can disable them.

Thanks for the thoughtful and informative OP, Ed. I think you’re doing the right things here.

JohnT, I’m having trouble seeing payoff rates for banner ads - where did you get your numbers? If your numbers are correct that means that the Reader has been making well over $420K on guest impressions, since there are more of them than the member impressions you calculated. I have to think that the SDMB would be way the hell over the break even mark if your calculations were very accurate.

Also, I was under the impression that a lot less advertisers nowadays are willing to pay by the # of impressions rather than # of click throughs.

I couldn’t have said it better so I’m tacking my agreement onto Spoons comments. I think the two-tier system will work just fine. Also, as a charter member I wouldn’t mind paying regular member subscription price. Let’s keep CL in the black and the board going!