# No more phoning while driving **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165 "2011-12-14T14:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/21 "2011-12-14T18:02:56Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > 1. Generally, why stop at phone related distractions? My satellite radio has a display that distracts me all the time. I imagine that GPS map displays can cause problems too. The article I read says that they did consider banning GPS, but decided that it actually added to safety. I’d much rather be behind someone being told where to turn by a GPS than someone slowing down at every intersection to look at the signs. I’ve noticed fewer idiots driving while talking since the California law passed, but it still gets flouted. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/22 "2011-12-14T18:14:21Z")
I’ve never heard a good explanation why talking to somebody on my phone while driving is worse than talking to a passenger. It can’t be fumbling with the phone, if it’s true that there’s no risk difference between using hands-free and not. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/23 "2011-12-14T18:18:38Z")
**constanze** explained it above. Drivers are generally less distracted by conversations with passengers\* because talking to somebody in person requires you to focus less than talking to someone on the phone. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/24 "2011-12-14T18:19:33Z")
The NTSB is only an advisory organization without any regulatory powers at all. It is still up to the individual state legislatures to pass laws regarding cell phone use. This recomendation of the NTSB is just a fluff news-of-the-day story. Nothing is going to change anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/25 "2011-12-14T18:28:09Z")
In Europe how enforced are the no phones while driving laws? In California, one of the states that bans use of phones while driving, enforcement is pretty lacking. I see people on the phone while driving all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/26 "2011-12-14T18:30:05Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > In Europe how enforced are the no phones while driving laws? In California, one of the states that bans use of phones while driving, enforcement is pretty lacking. I see people on the phone while driving all the time. I can’t speak for Europe as a whole. In the UK I have seen people pulled over for it, but you’d have to be pretty dumb to talk on a phone while driving past a police car. I know a guy who has been pulled over twice for it, but got no fine - just a ticking off from the police officer. I have also see cop cars completely ignore it, however. Guess it depends how busy they are right now. ---
**Author:** ![polar\_bear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@polar\_bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/polar_bear)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/27 "2011-12-14T18:35:15Z")
In the Netherlands they will pull you over if they catch you holding a phone near your ear. The fine is 180 euros. I feel people using their phone has become a lot less common since this rule has been in force. ---
**Author:** ![IntelliQ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e99b99/32.png) [@IntelliQ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IntelliQ)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/28 "2011-12-14T18:42:22Z")
Safety is always secondary to revenue. It’s all about what the government can get away imposing (flack) in relation to the dollars it brings in. Saving you from yourself is big business for government (also known in other circles as obscene profits). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/29 "2011-12-14T18:44:28Z")
Ooookay. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/30 "2011-12-14T18:50:47Z")
> [@gazpacho](#): > > In Europe how enforced are the no phones while driving laws? In California, one of the states that bans use of phones while driving, enforcement is pretty lacking. I see people on the phone while driving all the time. In Germany not that strict (this only from personal assessment). If caught, you’ll get a fine of 40 € plus one “point” in the infamous “Flensburger Verkehrszentralregister”, which is a central registry for violations of certain traffic laws. For a major violation like, for example, DUI, you’ll get, I think, up to six points, and with 18 points amassed, your license is revoked, so the penalty for using a cell phone is relatively low. I don’t know any statistics about how frequently this violation is punished, but I don’t have the impression that our police is very observant about it. At least I’ve never been casually told by anyone about how they had to pay for phoning at the wheel, but constantly hear stories about someone having been fined for speeding. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/31 "2011-12-14T19:15:07Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > Yesterday the NTSB released a recomendation and I heard the story on a number of dif news programs. In every case, an accident caused by some clown who texted 11 times in 11 minutes was referenced. > > 1. How does that particular incident get linked to the story? I read the article on this in the newspaper this morning, and I had almost this exact reaction: You recommend banning all use of cell phones while driving, **including for talking** , yet none of the examples you give have anything to do with talking or even mention anything about why talking on a cell phone while driving might be dangerous. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/32 "2011-12-14T20:29:03Z")
The machinations of the nanny state never cease to amaze me. My reactions to this nonsense. 1. I flat out don’t believe, as has been reported often recently, that driving while using a cell phone is a bad as driving drunk. (Not seen in this thread, but has been out there for some time.) 2. Ditto that is is as dangerous to use a hands-off device as it is to talk thru a regular cell phone. BS. 3. If all cell use is banned, including using hands-free devices, just how is it to be enforced? It’s basically impossible for anyone outside of the car to see if the driver is talking while using a hands-free device. In my personal case, I use an essentially invisible hands-free device. I have no intention of stopping doing this, no matter what laws are passed to protect me from myself. This reminds me a lot of a case from back in the 1920’s or so, regarding piloting an airplane. Licensing pilots by the Feds was just coming into effect, and a lot of Congressmen were about to decide that it would be a great idea to put a provision into the law that prohibited females from piloting an airplane during “that time of the month”. Everybody knew that they were not rational creatures during that time, right? Luckily, somebody, more clear thinking than most, had this to say; “Tell me, just how are you guys going to enforce this?” Long pause. “Uh, oh, golly, just maybe this isn’t such a hot idea after all.” As an aside, one of the things that frosts me is the compusion to accept, with open-mouthed wonder, the most far-out results of practically any “study” that manages to get published of otherwise distributed. From what I’ve seen in over 80 years of observation, is that the media (or almost anyone else, for that matter) has absolutely no ability to use any sort of critical analysis or thinking on any subject that comes out in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/33 "2011-12-14T20:37:19Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I read the article on this in the newspaper this morning, and I had almost this exact reaction: You recommend banning all use of cell phones while driving, **including for talking** , yet none of the examples you give have anything to do with talking or even mention anything about why talking on a cell phone while driving might be dangerous. One of the examples in the article I read was someone getting into a crash while dialing, which is a lot more relevant than texting. Dialing is allowed even with hands free laws. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/34 "2011-12-14T20:46:48Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > The machinations of the nanny state never cease to amaze me. My reactions to this nonsense. > > 1. I flat out don’t believe, as has been reported often recently, that driving while using a cell phone is a bad as driving drunk. (Not seen in this thread, but has been out there for some time.) There have been plenty of studies. But besides that, before the California law went into effect, I was behind plenty of people weaving inside their lane, leaving excessive space, and reacting slowly during my morning commute. In other words, they were driving like they were drunk - and when I finally passed them they were all holding cellphones. > [@](#): > > 1. Ditto that is is as dangerous to use a hands-off device as it is to talk thru a regular cell phone. BS. More studies have shown this in simulators. Look them up. > [@](#): > > 1. If all cell use is banned, including using hands-free devices, just how is it to be enforced? It’s basically impossible for anyone outside of the car to see if the driver is talking while using a hands-free device. Earpiece? Cop seeing someone driving erratically and noticing. Throwing an extra charge on when they are in a crash? > [@](#): > > In my personal case, I use an essentially invisible hands-free device. I have no intention of stopping doing this, no matter what laws are passed to protect me from myself. I don’t care about protecting you from yourself. I care about protecting others from you. You may not have noticed, talking on your phone and all, but there are other people on the road besides you. Same thing as for drunk driving. If drunks only killed themselves, be my guest. But that’s not the way it works, is it? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/35 "2011-12-14T20:48:55Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **constanze** explained it above. Drivers are generally less distracted by conversations with passengers\* because talking to somebody in person requires you to focus less than talking to someone on the phone. Ah, missed that, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/36 "2011-12-14T20:50:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > One of the examples in the article I read was someone getting into a crash while dialing, which is a lot more relevant than texting. Dialing is allowed even with hands free laws. Not universally true. Here you cannot touch the device at all. It has to be actually hands free. The moment you touch it, you’re breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/37 "2011-12-14T21:03:13Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > On the phone, OTOH, the driver subconciously puts the conversation first, driving second, and because the other person can’t see when the situation gets dangerous, the driver gets neglectful. What if your passenger is blind or a small child that cannot see a difficult traffic situation approaching? Should we outlaw conversations with children and blind passengers? Should it be a double fine if the passenger is both blind and a child? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/38 "2011-12-14T21:05:41Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > What if your passenger is blind or a small child that cannot see a difficult traffic situation approaching? Should we outlaw conversations with children and blind passengers? Should it be a double fine if the passenger is both blind and a child? So your argument is that because we can’t legislate for every contingency we should not legislate for any contingency? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/39 "2011-12-14T21:13:43Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > \*The neurological difference is that when talking to a passenger, the driver subconsciously puts driving first, answering second because he knows the passenger is there with him and understands if there are pauses because he has to concentrate for a moment. > > On the phone, OTOH, the driver subconciously puts the conversation first, driving second, and because the other person can’t see when the situation gets dangerous, the driver gets neglectful. Pure speculation. I fail to see why you would concentrate less on a passenger conversation than a cellphone conversation. I think a case could be made either way. Regardless, I remember when I got my first car phone. You know, the kind with a cord from the handset to the console and antenna on the roof. Very rare at the time, and on one of the first times I used it, I almost got into an accident at an intersection. I blame it on my inability to combine the new-fangled phone gadget with driving. Not to mention I was driving a stick shift at the time, and I needed three hands, but only had two. My solution? Learn to drive and talk at the same time, dumbass. Now it’s second nature, and not a problem with an automatic transmission. Legislation isn’t the best solution for everything. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/40 "2011-12-14T21:15:17Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Not universally true. Here you cannot touch the device at all. It has to be actually hands free. The moment you touch it, you’re breaking the law. Better than the California law, then. I think most American hands free laws allow dialing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165.md?page=3)