# No more phoning while driving **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165 "2011-12-14T14:27:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![TheUthaBrutha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5a626/32.png) [@TheUthaBrutha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheUthaBrutha)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/41 "2011-12-14T21:27:28Z")
Just go on any street and count the number of driver’s talking and texting. Just another law that won’t be enforced and used instead to collect revenue when it’s convenient for them If they want it to be effective they need to make cell phones unusable when the car is in motion. Of course the FCC won’t let anything interfere with their money, or rather making money off the airways ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/42 "2011-12-14T21:38:39Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Better than the California law, then. I think most American hands free laws allow dialing. Dialling’s the worst bit. ---
**Author:** ![cruel\_butterfly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5daacb/32.png) [@cruel\_butterfly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cruel_butterfly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/43 "2011-12-14T22:18:22Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Here’s a [chart](http://www.iihs.org/laws/cellphonelaws.aspx) of state laws. Then there are the laws enacted at county and municipality levels that are stricter than the state law. New Mexico in particular does this, and I’m sure other states as well. In Albuquerque and Santa Fe, it’s illegal to use a cell phone while driving (except hands-free, of course). Where I live, you can hold the phone and talk while driving, but you can’t text. As a side note, if there were a nationwide total ban on all cell phone use while driving, how exactly would it be enforced? I can imagine if a police officer sees you holding a phone to your ear while driving, that would be an automatic ticket like not wearing a seat belt. But with hands-free use, are cops just going to pull people over who appear to be talking to no one? What if you’re singing along with a song or just plain talking to yourself or to a child the officer can’t see? What if you ARE using a bluetooth earpiece, but there are other people in the car you might be talking to? Are you going to get pulled over for a roadside interrogation? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/44 "2011-12-14T22:27:19Z")
From the chart, > [@](#): > > The table and maps below show the states that have cellphone laws, whether they specifically ban text messaging, and whether they are enforced as primary or secondary laws. Under secondary laws, an officer must have some other reason to stop a vehicle before citing a driver for using a cellphone. Laws without this restriction are called primary. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/45 "2011-12-14T22:44:36Z")
> [@cruel\_butterfly](#): > > Then there are the laws enacted at county and municipality levels that are stricter than the state law. New Mexico in particular does this, and I’m sure other states as well. > > In Albuquerque and Santa Fe, it’s illegal to use a cell phone while driving (except hands-free, of course). Where I live, you can hold the phone and talk while driving, but you can’t text. > > As a side note, if there were a nationwide total ban on all cell phone use while driving, how exactly would it be enforced? > > I can imagine if a police officer sees you holding a phone to your ear while driving, that would be an automatic ticket like not wearing a seat belt. But with hands-free use, are cops just going to pull people over who appear to be talking to no one? What if you’re singing along with a song or just plain talking to yourself or to a child the officer can’t see? > > What if you ARE using a bluetooth earpiece, but there are other people in the car you might be talking to? Are you going to get pulled over for a roadside interrogation? Some of it is after the event. When at the scene of an accident they check your phone to see if you used it just before the event. If you did, it is promoted from accident to attempted murder. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/46 "2011-12-14T22:49:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **constanze** explained it above. Drivers are generally less distracted by conversations with passengers\* because talking to somebody in person requires you to focus less than talking to someone on the phone. Adding to that, a passenger is more likely to scream “hey hey HEY, stay in your own LANE, you MORON!” if necessity presents. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/47 "2011-12-15T01:52:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t care about protecting you from yourself. I care about protecting others from you. You may not have noticed, talking on your phone and all, but there are other people on the road besides you. I won’t bother to answer your other objections, as these would rapidly degenerate into a “is so is not” scenario. However, In approximately sixty three years of rather heavy driving, I’ve never put a scratch an a car, either belonging to me or to someone else. Except for that unfortunate incident in 1948 when I was a learner. Probably cost at least $25 to fix that fender dent. I think that one of the things that may be in play - very likely some folks have more trouble doing two things at once than others have. A relatively common phenomom is a driver who can’t talk to a passenger without taking eyes off the road and looking directly at his passenger. I have a friend who just can’t talk to anyone in the car without doing that. Scares the heck out of me. > [@](#): > > On the phone, OTOH, the driver subconciously puts the conversation first, driving second, and because the other person can’t see when the situation gets dangerous, the driver gets neglectful. I wonder how they figured out that little factoid. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/48 "2011-12-15T03:27:50Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Adding to that, a passenger is more likely to scream “hey hey HEY, stay in your own LANE, you MORON!” if necessity presents. Not babies or children. My brother and I fought or screamed constantly when we road in the car and my parents were always distracted by it, far, far more than your average cell phone user is distracted, especially one with a hands-free device. If the concern here was rational and it was for safety, it would also be illegal to transport children under a certain age in a car, unless separated from the driver by a soundproof barrier. Babies aren’t going to tell you when you are straying from your lane. They also aren’t going to wait until you are finished passing that 18-wheeler to start crying. Oh yeah, dogs can’t scream either, so they should also be banned in cars. This would result in more veterinarians making house calls. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/49 "2011-12-15T05:04:26Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Some of it is after the event. When at the scene of an accident they check your phone to see if you used it just before the event. If you did, it is promoted from accident to attempted murder. Murder, really? Attempted murder as in honest to god **intent** to kill someone?😕 Perhaps you mean some reckless endagerment charge? Even then if some douche hits me, maybe I don’t some spook trying to search my phone. Fault isn’t always quickly assessable, so you’re effectigely advocating accident victims get their privacy violated. Further some accidents no one is at fault. Deer are suicidal, tires blow out, etc. Also some mobiles (mine for example) only show when a call was placed, not when it ended. Meaning a call that lasted a minute, and was taken 45 minutes ago is indistinguishable from one that started 45 minutes ago and lasted till just now. Also, how do you account for a phone not being soul bound to it’s owner? I’ve loaned my phone to a passenger before. How do you know that call wasn’t placed by someone else in the car? (aside from the obviose example of someone being alone in the car). Also, if nothing else, call history can easily be selectively deleted, which if word gets out people will charged with murder will happen a lot. Also cops don’t just materialize at an accident. Some jag off was setting in parking lot talking on a cell, needed to clarify a shopping list. They hang up, turn car on, pull into traffic and get t-boned. Officer, 10 minutes later, sees they were talking on phone about the time of the accident. Attempted murder charge? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/50 "2011-12-15T10:35:35Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Pure speculation. I fail to see why you would concentrate less on a passenger conversation than a cellphone conversation. I think a case could be made either way. Sure, you could make a case either way but how would _you_ judge which case is strongest? evidence perhaps? scientific studies? neurological research? Or anecdote and personal beliefs? Care to guess what conclusions the former approach leads us to? > [@](#): > > Regardless, I remember when I got my first car phone. You know, the kind with a cord from the handset to the console and antenna on the roof. Very rare at the time, and on one of the first times I used it, I almost got into an accident at an intersection. I blame it on my inability to combine the new-fangled phone gadget with driving. > > Not to mention I was driving a stick shift at the time, and I needed three hands, but only had two. So you too have found an increase in brain work-load leads to distraction and an increased accident risk? > [@](#): > > My solution? Learn to drive and talk at the same time, dumbass. Now it’s second nature, and not a problem with an automatic transmission. It isn’t necessarily a skill that is easy to pick up and certainly isn’t linked to intelligence. Perhaps you are one of a small number of people who experience no distraction by holding a phone conversation. Good for you. But how about the millions who can’t and never will. And how do you intend to simulate the brain work-load of driving and phoning? Encourage people to practice it in a live traffic environment until they are crashing less often? I suspect you have been lucky and have never had cause to find out just how much it affects you. I sincerely hope you never do, even though that means you get to spout the “I’m different” line until then. ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/51 "2011-12-15T12:02:44Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Murder, really? Attempted murder as in honest to god **intent** to kill someone?😕 Perhaps you mean some reckless endagerment charge? Possibly. I know it’s bumped up to something quite serious. > [@](#): > > Fault isn’t always quickly assessable, so you’re effectigely advocating accident victims get their privacy violated. I’m not advocating anything. I’m simply telling you what the SOP is here. > [@](#): > > Also some mobiles (mine for example) only show when a call was placed, not when it ended. Meaning a call that lasted a minute, and was taken 45 minutes ago is indistinguishable from one that started 45 minutes ago and lasted till just now. > > Also, how do you account for a phone not being soul bound to it’s owner? I’ve loaned my phone to a passenger before. How do you know that call wasn’t placed by someone else in the car? (aside from the obviose example of someone being alone in the car). > > Also cops don’t just materialize at an accident. Some jag off was setting in parking lot talking on a cell, needed to clarify a shopping list. They hang up, turn car on, pull into traffic and get t-boned. Officer, 10 minutes later, sees they were talking on phone about the time of the accident. Attempted murder charge? _I_ don’t account for anything. All I know is that I was in a minor accident a while back, and the police checked the drivers’ phones as part of the procedure. Neither turned out to be a a problem, but I’m sure the set of policing skills and training is not ignorant of such possibilities. I’ll let you know if I ever fall foul of it - not likely, because I don’t use my phone when driving. I used to before it became illegal, and I honestly think I had a couple of near misses because if it. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/52 "2011-12-15T12:27:47Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So you too have found an increase in brain work-load leads to distraction and an increased accident risk? Right. Just like talking to passengers, listening to the radio, watching the traffic and driving. All distractions we learn to cope with. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/53 "2011-12-15T15:03:18Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > Murder, really? Attempted murder as in honest to god **intent** to kill someone?😕 Perhaps you mean some reckless endagerment charge? Under Anglo-American law, second-degree murder does not necessarily require intent to kill. Under some standards, you need only intend the conduct which results in death, if death was a reasonably foreseeable result. You can’t have an attempted murder charge without actual intent to kill, though. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/54 "2011-12-15T17:20:11Z")
It is of interest to note that the morning after the news about the NTSB recommendation, here in Washington State a number of state legislatures stated to reporters that ther was zero chance of this being enacted here. And since Washington State is rather fond of nannyism, I think this speaks volumes about the overreaching of the NTSB. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/55 "2011-12-15T17:27:06Z")
Yeah, how _dare_ they publish a non-binding recommendation, those fuckers. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/56 "2011-12-15T17:51:24Z")
> [@ataraxy22](#): > > Not babies or children. My brother and I fought or screamed constantly when we road in the car and my parents were always distracted by it, far, far more than your average cell phone user is distracted, especially one with a hands-free device. > > If the concern here was rational and it was for safety, it would also be illegal to transport children under a certain age in a car, unless separated from the driver by a soundproof barrier. Babies aren’t going to tell you when you are straying from your lane. They also aren’t going to wait until you are finished passing that 18-wheeler to start crying. > > Oh yeah, dogs can’t scream either, so they should also be banned in cars. This would result in more veterinarians making house calls. Yes, dogs. I should have added them to my list. Let’s not forget about mute people as well as deaf people. They are unable to hear honking sounds, nor speak to you regarding a danger. Also the feeble-minded are very unhelpful in traffic situations. So, if we are going to ban talking on cellphones, we must also ban talking to pets, small children, blind, deaf and/or dumb people, plus the plain feeble-minded. If it saves just one life. How would you enforce such a thing? Easy. Any of the above mentioned people must wear bright orange bumper stickers on their foreheads when riding in cars so an officer can easily see if a driver is conversing with that person. You aren’t against vehicle safety, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/57 "2011-12-15T17:52:10Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Right. Just like talking to passengers, listening to the radio, watching the traffic and driving. All distractions we learn to cope with. When I listen to CDs in my car, I often lose a section when I am negotiating a stressful merge. It is clear what takes priority. I have told my wife to stop talking for a second if I am trying to deal with a complex situation. That is a lot harder to do on the phone, where you have been conditioned to pay attention to the other person, who might start prompting you if you stop talking. Sure most times you get away with it, but what about those times when a split-second reaction can make the difference between crash and no crash. About 15 years ago I had a long call with a company I was interested in working for going north on 101 from San Luis Obispo. When I finished the call, I realized I had driven 20 miles in heavy traffic with no memory of doing so. That is when I gave up talking on a cellphone when driving except in extreme emergencies. If any of us are really so important that we have to talk on the road, we can get a driver. ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/58 "2011-12-15T18:32:08Z")
If folks really want to reduce the fatatality rate on highways, they would: 1. Reduce the speed limit to 35 mph, like it was in WWII. We lived thru that. And noboby really needs to go faster, right? 2. Mandate that everyone in a vehicle wear heavy duty helmets. If it saves ONE life, it’s worth it. 3. Ration gasoline for cars to 4 gallons per week, just like in WWII. This would have the side effect of forcing most folks into public transportation, just like the environmentalists want. No downside here. If those few easy rules were enforced, I’ll wager that the annual highway death rate woiuld drop from 50,000 or so down to less than a thousand. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Is this what’s called a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/59 "2011-12-15T20:16:00Z")
It depends whether you actually believe it. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165/60 "2011-12-15T20:56:29Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Right. Just like talking to passengers, listening to the radio, watching the traffic and driving. All distractions we learn to cope with. No, if you’ve read the studies you would know that talking on the phone is very specifically\* not \*like any of those things. it is a different beast altogether, the nature of a two-way remote conversation has a very different effect on concentration levels than those other examples. Would any evidence convince you of this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-phoning-while-driving/606165.md?page=4)