# No more recess appointments - is this the end of the filibuster? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 26, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702 "2014-06-26T15:42:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/21 "2014-06-27T01:17:54Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I don’t admit it because I don’t favor it. Please don’t misrepresent my position, it’s not very nice. > > The difference, is that Bush made 171 recess appointments and Obama has made 32. It’s not right when the Dems did it, but it was less monolithic. > > If I slap you in the face it’s wrong. If you slap me in the face 50 times,\* it’s more wrong\*. Could any part of this difference be due to Obama’s having a Senate that is controlled by his party, and Bush not having that for part of his presidency? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/22 "2014-06-27T01:21:21Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I don’t admit it because I don’t favor it. Please don’t misrepresent my position, it’s not very nice. It’s simply an astonishing coincidence that every single position you favor coincides with advantage for the Democrats. Filibusters? Against 'em, unless the Democrats are in the minority, then for 'em. Recess appointments? Hate 'em, unless it’s a Democratic president making them. Etc. etc. Governors appoint senators to a vacant seat? No, take that power away from the Republican governor! Then yes, give that power back to the Democratic governor! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/23 "2014-06-27T02:00:37Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s simply an astonishing coincidence that every single position you favor coincides with advantage for the Democrats. Every single position? Interesting. I don’t think that’s true. I do think you’re projecting a bit. > [@](#): > > Filibusters? Against 'em, unless the Democrats are in the minority, then for 'em. Recess appointments? Hate 'em, unless it’s a Democratic president making them. Etc. etc. Please stop attributing things that are not true to me. I don’t like the filibuster in general. However, until the current president came into office, it wasn’t presumptive. I’m now for removing it entirely, since the ice is broken and we can’t expect restraint. I think recess appointments served a purpose. I’d rather there just be votes. As for what you added on edit, I don’t support the kind of partisan tag that the Dems did in Mass. I think it’s trivial compared to the systemic attempt at disenfranchising the poor that is happening to GOP controlled state govts. but that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/24 "2014-06-27T02:28:04Z")
Didn’t the Senate already abolish filibusters on presidential appointments last year? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/25 "2014-06-27T03:05:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > [Another SC ruling today](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/06/26/supreme-court-obama-senate-appointments/8528059/) effectively ends the republic-old power of the President to make recess appointments. Now, the Senate is in session whenever it says it is, which can be continuously, even if nobody is actually there, so there are no more recesses. > > That also means a minority of as little as 41 Senators can prevent an entire executive-branch agency from functioning, merely by preventing enough appointees from confirmation just by using the filibuster. That’s what’s happened with the NLRB, which not only can no longer function but has had all of its recent actions invalidated. > > So does that finally give the frustrated-beyond-belief elected majority in the Senate enough support to get rid of at least the painless filibuster, if not the whole antidemocratic rule? I don’t mind the filibuster, I mind that it is painless. Our senate has gotten into the habit of filibustering picayune bullshit to create leverage on some other picayune bullshit. If you really have a problem with the nominee for the 2nd district of Californewyorkinois then stand up there and explain yourself until you are blue in the face but don’t shit on the guy’s head because you have a problem with how Obama is handling passport applications or some shit like that. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/26 "2014-06-27T03:15:22Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Every single position? Interesting. I don’t think that’s true. I do think you’re projecting a bit. Oh. Well, then. If you don’t think so. That certainly refutes the claim. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/27 "2014-06-27T03:21:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Oh. Well, then. If you don’t think so. That certainly refutes the claim. I refuted the few you mentioned. Please stop asserting that I believe things that I don’t. This is GD, argue the issue, instead of attacking me in lieu of an argument. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/28 "2014-06-27T03:22:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > No more recess appointments - is this the end of the filibuster? The POTUS can still make recess appointments. _ **IF** _ the U.S. Senate is actually in recess. The POTUS doesn’t get to decide whether or not the U.S. Senate is in recess. Only the U.S. Senate can decide if it’s in recess. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/29 "2014-06-27T03:51:33Z")
And now it may never be again. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/30 "2014-06-27T05:39:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > . . . Only the U.S. Senate can decide if it’s in recess. They can also lie about it, and that’s a Constitutional evasion every bit as troubling. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/31 "2014-06-27T08:19:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I don’t mind the filibuster, I mind that it is painless. Our senate has gotten into the habit of filibustering picayune bullshit to create leverage on some other picayune bullshit. If you really have a problem with the nominee for the 2nd district of Californewyorkinois then stand up there and explain yourself until you are blue in the face but don’t shit on the guy’s head because you have a problem with how Obama is handling passport applications or some shit like that. Filibusters aren’t painless. They are painful… for the senators who **aren’t** filibustering. It’s not difficult at all for the minority to put a handful of senators out there to keep talking or making quorum calls. The hard part is for the majority to keep enough senators in the chamber to maintain a quorum to conduct business. Not only is the burden asymmetrical but by requiring the minority to stand for their filibuster the majority is literally giving them the floor. No other business can be conducted during this time. It’s not that the current senators are not living up to the old standards because they are weak-willed or whatever. They are doing the smart thing. Despite how often people pine for an end to silent filibustering there isn’t ever going to be a move to requiring standing filibusters. There simply is no way to do so without admitting that the formal debates just aren’t that important, which is the very justification for allowing filibustering in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/32 "2014-06-27T11:19:36Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > They can also lie about it, and that’s a Constitutional evasion every bit as troubling. Well, it’s not a question of “lying”. Only the Senate gets to decide when they’re in recess. If they say they’re not, and the senators from Virginia and Maryland show up every few days, gavel the Senate in, complain about not having a quorum, and then adjourn, that’s not a recess. The problem isn’t that they’re lying, because they’re not. The problem is that they’re making the motions of working and not working. The other problem is that recess appointments, in this day and age, are a dumb idea. They made sense when Congress only met for a few months a year and spent the rest of the time spread out across the United States, without access to reliable transportation or communication. If a community needed a new postmaster or the US needed a new Secretary of State, the president might not have had time to wait 6 months for Congress to wait 6 months and get around to approving his choice. Now, with modern communication and transportation, that’s not a problem. Nowadays, if there’s some emergency, the President can call a special session and have Congress back and sitting within 24 hours, or even less. The old limitations that made recess appointments necessary are now made obsolete by technology. The problem now is that Congress isn’t unable to act on appointments, unlike back then, but that it’s unwilling to. Nominations sit in limbo indefinitely, because the Senate is either unable or unwilling to put them to a vote and either approve or reject them. The primary blame there has to go on the Senate, using the filibuster to an enormous extent, beyond that of Senates in the past. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/33 "2014-06-27T11:45:36Z")
The problem is that until now, the minority party never abused its power and just refused to approve appointments because they were opposed to the concept of the position to be filled. Democrats would never have approved Michael Bolton as UN Ambassador, so Bush filled it during recess. It wasn’t that Democrats were opposed to the idea of a UN Ambassador, it’s that they could see what kind of douche Bolton was. Now Republicans simply don’t like the idea of the NLRB and refuse to even consider any appointment. That crosses the line between serving as a responsible check on presidential powers and a naked power grab. Time to kill the filibuster entirely. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/34 "2014-06-27T12:45:18Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The problem now is that Congress isn’t unable to act on appointments, unlike back then, but that it’s unwilling to. … The primary blame there has to go on the Senate, using the filibuster to an enormous extent, beyond that of Senates in the past. You’re being more than a bit disingenuous by allocating blame over the entire institution. The only thing you can blame the Democrats for is timidity in effectively addressing the Just Say No party’s abuse of the filibuster and the blue-slip rule. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/35 "2014-06-27T12:50:58Z")
> [@2sense](#): > > Filibusters aren’t painless. They are painful… for the senators who **aren’t** filibustering. Today, we really do have a filibuster process so easy to use that it acts as a minority veto, against any articulateable principles of either democracy or governance. It’s painless for the obstructionist minority, especially given the lazy media’s habit of portraying such an effort as a defeat or failure of the majority. Make them stand up and talk, making it clear to everyone, including TV watchers, just what is happening. More usefully, it will become a very rare occasion, to be used only for the most important matters - and \*\*not \*\*for simply discrediting the very concept of government, as it has been recently. > [@](#): > > Despite how often people pine for an end to silent filibustering there isn’t ever going to be a move to requiring standing filibusters. There simply is no way to do so without admitting that the formal debates just aren’t that important, which is the very justification for allowing filibustering in the first place. It isn’t \*silent \*filibustering that has to end, it’s \*easy, consequence-free \*filibustering that has to end. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/36 "2014-06-27T12:52:50Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Only the U.S. Senate can decide if it’s in recess. The bright-line principle is now established that three days is not enough, but ten days still is. I’m sure somebody can explain how that happens, or what the exact number is and where it can be found. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/37 "2014-06-27T13:32:40Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The bright-line principle is now established that three days is not enough, but ten days still is. I’m sure somebody can explain how that happens, or what the exact number is and where it can be found. :rolleyes: From the Constitution of the United States; > [@](#): > > Neither House, during the Session of Congress, shall, without the Consent of the other, adjourn for more than three days, nor to any other Place than that in which the two Houses shall be sitting. If both houses have agreed to a recess longer than three days, then Congress can safely be assumed to be in recess. This is why the Obama administration themselves advocated the three-day standard. Otherwise you would have such absurdities as the President making a recess appointment every time the Senate adjourned for the evening. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/38 "2014-06-27T13:39:00Z")
I think this is only the next iteration in the arms race. What happens next is that senators of the president’s party will start challenging the pro forma sessions by doing things like calling for a quorum. Things are just going to get worse until something everyone cares about breaks, or there’s a fundamental realignment in politics. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/39 "2014-06-27T13:45:52Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > What happens next is that senators of the president’s party will start challenging the pro forma sessions by doing things like calling for a quorum. That would accomplish nothing. The only significance of the pro forma session is that it be called to order. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702/40 "2014-06-27T13:46:28Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Things are just going to get worse until something everyone cares about breaks That’s the Republicans’ _goal_, though. To break government. > [@](#): > > or there’s a fundamental realignment in politics. We may already have experienced that, in part - the traditional voting practice of ticket-splitting, forcing the parties to work together to get anything done and keeping either from getting too much power, already seems to be a thing of the past. We The People have instead made a practice of voting for the party of making things work over the party of making things fail, and only gerrymandering and filibustering stands in the way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-recess-appointments-is-this-the-end-of-the-filibuster/691702.md?page=3)