# No more time for debate. Now I am outraged! \[Toronto police shooting\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 30, 2013, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958 "2013-07-30T23:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/21 "2013-07-31T20:19:12Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > And, regardless, once he was down from bullets one through three, what was the purpose of numbers four through nine? Icing. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/22 "2013-07-31T20:31:43Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > That’s a horrible thing to say. ☹ Did you read the post at any level deeper than a quick search for things to take offense to? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/23 "2013-07-31T20:34:10Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > My God, man. It’s not like they can help it! > [@kayaker](#): > > Icing. With the tasering after he was dead being the candle on the cake. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/24 "2013-07-31T21:06:48Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Did you read the post at any level deeper than a quick search for things to take offense to? Dude! I’m drinking your vodka as we speak! ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/25 "2013-07-31T21:27:17Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > With the tasering after he was dead being the candle on the cake. I guess you could say they blew him out. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/26 "2013-07-31T22:55:36Z")
> [@](#): > > I call 18-year-olds kids doesn’t mean they _are_ kids. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2013, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/27 "2013-07-31T23:45:44Z")
In this case, he’s a dead kid. How very sad. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/28 "2013-08-01T00:26:55Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > In this case, he’s a dead kid. > > How very sad. He wasn’t a kid, but it is sad that all this stupidness (started by him) ended up with his death. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/29 "2013-08-01T01:26:34Z")
As someone who knows and loves mentally ill people I find his death and the dismissal of it deeply disturbing and sad. He was clearly having some type of breakdown. That should not deserve a death sentence. It’s shameful. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/30 "2013-08-01T02:21:00Z")
I think cops shot a lot of menatlly ill people when I was a kid in NYC. maybe someone older than me can refresh my memory. Koch had a budget problem and he saved money by kicking the mentally ill out of the public hospitals. They weren’t supposed to be dangerous and indeed most of them just ended up homeless and many didn’t make it past the first couple of winters. But a few of them turned violent and cops went around shooting them. I was young and don’t remember it well (and I can’t find any reference on google so I might be misremembering). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/31 "2013-08-01T02:38:24Z")
> [@KarlGauss](#): > > Some of the posts to my GD thread astounded me. One, in particular, said that what the cops did was “admirable”. Admirable? Executing a kid because he’s holding a 3-inch knife even when NO ONE is in danger? I said that, IMHO, it was more admirable than grappling for the knife, and more admirable than calling him a boy. I stand by both of those. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/32 "2013-08-01T02:41:57Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > He wasn’t a kid, but it is sad that all this stupidness (started by him) ended up with his death. It isn’t sad, it’s a god damned disaster for this boy and his family. Stupidity is endemic. The whole fucking world is up to its god damned eyeballs in stupidity but that’s a poor proximate cause to having 9 bullets blasted into your body when no one is in immediate danger. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/33 "2013-08-01T02:46:04Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I said that, IMHO, it was more admirable than grappling for the knife, and more admirable than calling him a boy. I stand by both of those. You know what’s admirable in a police officer? judgement and restraint. Guess what was in missing that morning. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/34 "2013-08-01T02:48:59Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > You know what’s admirable in a police officer? judgement and restraint. Guess what was in missing that morning. How many times was the man in question told to drop the knife before the police opened fire? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/35 "2013-08-01T02:53:42Z")
This is so disgusting! He should be off the force. The kid sounds like he was having something like a psychotic break, poor thing. At any rate, no one was in danger, he was one they were many, and they unnecessarily shot him like a dog in the street. Shot and wounded, I still might think you were a tad hair trigger. Shot down? No excuse for that shit! (Cops where I live just wrestled an 87yr old man to the ground, injuring his face quite badly, for not following their commands!) ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/36 "2013-08-01T03:01:33Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How many times was the man in question told to drop the knife before the police opened fire? How many times did they have to shoot him after he was down from the first three bullets? As the second video shows unequivocally, he was already on the floor, incapacitated and threatening no one, after the first three. There was NO justification for the last six shots. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/37 "2013-08-01T04:11:27Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How many times was the man in question told to drop the knife before the police opened fire? My mistake. I had no idea the success metric here was a commands to bullets ratio. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/38 "2013-08-01T04:23:58Z")
Just for the hell of it, what does the Toronto Police Service recommend if there is someone having mental health issues? > [@Toronto Police Services : Mental health issues](#): > > Mental health issues > > The Police recognize that all mental health crises cannot be averted. The earlier the intervention, the less intrusive it is for the individual in crisis. > > The basics > > - Remain calm > - Listen to the person in crisis - What they say may hold the information you need to resolve the crisis > - Listening assures the person that you are trying to help them > - Remember your safety - If you are the focus of the person’s anxiety, let someone else take the lead > - Reduce distractions - Give the person space, turn off the TV or radio and limit the number of people assisting > > The Mental Health Act > > It is always better to get cooperation from the person who needs help. Unfortunately, this is not always possible. > > If the person: > > - Has threatened or is attempting to cause bodily harm to him/herself > - Has behaved or is behaving violently towards others or is causing others to fear bodily harm from him/her > - Has shown or is showing a lack of competence to care for him/herself > > There are several options: > > … > > The police > > ``` > If the person is currently acting out in a violent or threatening way - CALL 911 - If the Police can actually observe this behaviour, the person can be apprehended under the Mental Health Act and taken to the nearest hospital for examination > > ``` Oddly enough it doesn’t say kill the person, but rather calm and apprehend. Might not be manly enough for you **Waldo** but what can you do? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/39 "2013-08-01T04:44:33Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Might not be manly enough for you **Waldo** but what can you do? I don’t know what _manliness_ has to do with it; that’s a rather bizarre non sequitur; I’m the one who esteems gunning him down from a safe distance instead of grappling for the knife, remember? The latter course of action is presumably manlier, but I don’t happen to give a tin shit. At that, some folks say that suicide-by-cop is a manly course of action; by contrast, I don’t much care whether it’s manly. (How the heck did this get to be about whether something is manly enough?) ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958/40 "2013-08-01T12:40:39Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > How many times was the man in question told to drop the knife before the police opened fire? The police are not allowed to gun someone down for not following commands. Period. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-more-time-for-debate-now-i-am-outraged-toronto-police-shooting/664958.md?page=3)