# No, Mr. NY Times art critic...a dildo up your butt is NOT art **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892 "2012-08-18T18:51:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/1 "2012-08-18T18:51:03Z")
Last week the New York Times dance critic wrote an article with a legitimate title: [“Nakedness in Dance”.](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/arts/dance/nakedness-in-dance-taken-to-extremes.html?pagewanted=all) He starts like any typical article by an art critic, discusses the history of dance, mentions the old classics “Hair” “Oh Calcutta”, etc. And then he says: > [@](#): > > at the Queer New York Festival.., Cecilia Bengolea and François Chaignaud, after removing what few garments they had been wearing, inserted dildos up their backsides and kept them there for perhaps 10 minutes. The only dance moment of note occurred when, side by side, each held a balance on one foot while using the sole of the raised foot to hold the dildo in place. Yes, that’s right—stick a dildo up your butt, add a bit for the foot fetishists in the audience, and proudly call it a “dance moment”. It happened in Manhattan, so it **has** to be art , right? Fuck you, Mr. Avant Garde True Believer in High Culture. Get the fuck out of New York ,and leave behind your social clique of elite snobs. Go learn something about REAL American culture. Go to a country music show in Nashville. Go to a Baptist church in Little Rock, Arkansas. Go to a Nascar race. Go to a high school basketball game in Indiana. Go watch the Super Bowl. Go to frickin’ Las Vegas, or Hollywood . Or, since you are a True Guardian of High Culture, and can’t stoop to associating with the peasantry…Go to any city in the country and hear their philharmonic orchestra. Go to the theater in Indianapolis where this week there is a performance of Mexican ballet. Go the theater in Seattle where they’re performing the Glass Menagerie by Tennessee Williams . Go fucking anywhere, do fucking anything… But for Og’s sake, do it where they don’t shove dildos up their asses on stage and proudly call it art, and print it in the cultural section of the newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/2 "2012-08-18T19:02:53Z")
Clearly you’re not cultured enough to understand the nuances of True Art. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/3 "2012-08-18T19:03:01Z")
“I don’t know about art, but I know what I like!” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/4 "2012-08-18T19:05:54Z")
“Tell me the strangest place you’ve ever held your dancing partner.” “That’d be the butt, Bob.” ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/5 "2012-08-18T19:15:29Z")
Fuck NASCAR, fuck Nashville, fuck the Southern Baptist Convention, fuck the Super Bowl, fuck Vegas, fuck Hollywood, _and_ fuck New York and dildos up the ass as modern dance. There, now. What’s left? I’m not much on Mexican ballet, and I think most symphony orchestras are culturally moribund. Anyone for some nice classic jazz? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/6 "2012-08-18T19:17:21Z")
Ah I see the tradition of disguising porn as art is alive and well 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/7 "2012-08-18T19:25:31Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Anyone for some nice classic jazz? fine by me…as long as the musicians don’t use didoes on stage. But then the NY Times wont cover it. Because if it didnt happen at the Queer Festival in New York, it ain’t culture ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/8 "2012-08-18T19:26:56Z")
Did you happen to note his opinion of the piece? > [@](#): > > But Ms. Bengolea and Mr. Chaignaud wielding their dildos in “Pâquerette” were just irksomely coy, along aren’t-we-being-bold-and-don’t-you-love-us-for-it lines. (How I longed for the voice of an English toff to interrupt with “I say, Leo!”) In other words, compared to other experimental nude shows he was _not_ impressed. He only included it to show the bad with the good. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/9 "2012-08-18T19:27:04Z")
I agree with the OP. Who wants to put the Nutcracker and a dildo up an ass in the same category? ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/10 "2012-08-18T19:34:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He only included it to show the bad with the good. that’s my whole point—that fact that he included it at all means that he thinks that the basic idea is okay, it’s just that this specific interpretation wasn’t quite as effective as the artists intended. It’s still bullshit, and the expert on “culture” is incapable of saying so.Any redneck at a nascar race, or any jazz enthusiast, could set him straight. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/11 "2012-08-18T19:36:27Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I agree with the OP. Who wants to put the Nutcracker and a dildo up an ass in the same category? At least he didn’t shove a nutcracker up his ass. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/12 "2012-08-18T19:36:43Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Did you happen to note his opinion of the piece? That’s exactly the question I was going to ask. The OP started piling on the art critic without ever saying what his opinion was. Pit fail. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/13 "2012-08-18T19:42:57Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > that’s my whole point—that fact that he included it at all means that he thinks that the basic idea is okay, it’s just that this specific interpretation wasn’t quite as effective as the artists intended. > > It’s still bullshit, and the expert on “culture” is incapable of saying so.Any redneck at a nascar race, or any jazz enthusiast, could set him straight. Fuck yes. The one area where the Commies beat us in the Cold War was their aesthetics. Although I despise country music. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/14 "2012-08-18T19:44:03Z")
I thought the OP was doing a performance pit after I read the article, but whatever. It’s a piece about nudity in experimental dance and an example that fails. Your rant, sir, is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/15 "2012-08-18T19:46:34Z")
Soviet aesthetics were superior to ours? Seriously? Those faceless, shapeless, concrete monstrosities? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/16 "2012-08-18T19:48:16Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Soviet aesthetics were superior to ours? Seriously? Those faceless, shapeless, concrete monstrosities? Definitely: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist\_realism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_realism) Compare this to Jackson Pollock or Andy Warhol… ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/17 "2012-08-18T19:54:16Z")
I might consider going to a NASCAR race or a Baptist church in Little Rock if the peasantry there jammed dildos in their ringpieces for ten minutes. But I’m just a culture-saturated Manhattanite, so what do I know? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/18 "2012-08-18T19:59:28Z")
Seems sort of bizarre to call someone an art snob and then say what they think is art really isn’t. Doesn’t that make the OP the art-snob? Anyhoo, seems silly to say nude dance isn’t “real art”. It pretty obviously is. The example given in the OP isn’t _good_ art (which was the NYT’s point in bringing it up), but bad art is still art. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/19 "2012-08-18T20:00:33Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Seems sort of bizarre to call someone an art snob and then say what they think is art really isn’t. Doesn’t that make the OP the art-snob? Well most of these types would hate say stuff by Norman Rockwell. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/20 "2012-08-18T20:03:51Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well most of these types would hate say stuff by Norman Rockwell. What is the significance of this? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892.md?page=2)