# No, Mr. NY Times art critic...a dildo up your butt is NOT art **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892 "2012-08-18T18:51:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/21 "2012-08-18T20:04:15Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > What is the significance of this? I’m pointing out how they would be snobbish. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/22 "2012-08-18T20:04:31Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well most of these types would hate say stuff by Norman Rockwell. “These types?” The article doesn’t mention Rockwell. I have no idea what “type” the NYT reviewer is. Methinks there’s a lot of projection going on here. ETA: > [@](#): > > I’m pointing out how they would be snobbish. Would it be more or less snobbish then brandishing a reviewer as a “type”, making up a story about how he didn’t like Rockwell based on that “type” and then calling him a snob for the made-up opinion you think he has? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/23 "2012-08-18T20:09:23Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > “These types?” The article doesn’t mention Rockwell. I have no idea what “type” the NYT reviewer is. It isn’t hard to guess how these types of modern (rather postmodern) art critics would react to most types of popular culture. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/24 "2012-08-18T20:09:28Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > I might consider going to a NASCAR race or a Baptist church in Little Rock if the peasantry there jammed dildos in their ringpieces for ten minutes. Pffft. And risk a head injury? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/25 "2012-08-18T20:16:50Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > It isn’t hard to guess how these types of modern (rather postmodern) art critics would react to most types of popular culture. And guessing is _so_ much easier then reading reviews and finding out the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/26 "2012-08-18T20:18:49Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > It isn’t hard to guess how these types of modern (rather postmodern) art critics would react to most types of popular culture. This is beyond silly. Come back in six hours and re-read your contributions to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/27 "2012-08-18T20:19:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And guessing is _so_ much easier then reading reviews and finding out the facts. Well, what the fuck is he supposed to stuff in all those pigeonholes? Pigeons? ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/28 "2012-08-18T20:23:55Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I agree with the OP. Who wants to put the Nutcracker and a dildo up an ass in the same category? if nutcrackers were involved it would become more performance art than dance. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/29 "2012-08-18T20:27:44Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, what the fuck is he supposed to stuff in all those pigeonholes? Pigeons? Let’s not squabble. ---
**Author:** ![jordanr2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@jordanr2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jordanr2)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/30 "2012-08-18T20:32:04Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well most of these types would hate say stuff by Norman Rockwell. says who? ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/31 "2012-08-18T20:32:46Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, what the fuck is he supposed to stuff in all those pigeonholes? Pigeons? > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s not squabble. a tasteful reply. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/32 "2012-08-18T20:52:39Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > Last week the New York Times dance critic wrote an article with a legitimate title: > [“Nakedness in Dance”.](http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/arts/dance/nakedness-in-dance-taken-to-extremes.html?pagewanted=all) > He starts like any typical article by an art critic, discusses the history of dance, mentions the old classics “Hair” “Oh Calcutta”, etc. And then he says: > > Yes, that’s right—stick a dildo up your butt, add a bit for the foot fetishists in the audience, and proudly call it a “dance moment”. > It happened in Manhattan, so it **has** to be art , right? Did you actually _read_ the article you linked to? All the words? He’s not complimenting them. > [@](#): > > Also new was Mr. Hennessy sewing himself to others in “Crotch”; I found the show both horrid and haunting — eloquent but creepily manipulative. **[COLOR=“black”]But Ms. Bengolea and Mr. Chaignaud wielding their dildos in “Pâquerette” were just irksomely coy, along aren’t-we-being-bold-and-don’t-you-love-us-for-it lines[/COLOR]**. (How I longed for the voice of an English toff to interrupt with “I say, Leo!”) > > When I tell friends of these viewings, they inevitably ask: Where is the line between art and pornography? But there’s always been a huge overlap between the two; you can see scenes of copulation on Greek vases and Indian temples. What’s more, many works of art have seemed pornographic without nakedness. Many of us are tempted to talk as if art = good, pornography = bad. Yet that’s wrong too. Much art is poor, while the novels of the Marquis de Sade are pornography taken to a brilliant, horrifying and extraordinary peak. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/33 "2012-08-18T20:54:27Z")
I’ve been called artistic by those I’ve performed this type of masterpiece on. Ymmv. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/34 "2012-08-18T21:00:02Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Well most of these types would hate say stuff by Norman Rockwell. Rockwell was not an artist; he was an illustrator. At best, you could call him a commercial artist. ---
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/35 "2012-08-18T21:00:57Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > “I don’t know about art, but I know what I like!” “I don’t know much about art, but I like what I know” ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/36 "2012-08-18T21:20:07Z")
Does the OP consider dance as worthwhile art ? Does the introduction of (slightly) unusual sexuality suddenly disqualify the dance from being worthwhile art? Or is it about where to draw the line? If so, why get upset if some people draw it in a different place than yourself. I don’t see as how it’s hurting anyone very much. Here’s another quote from the NYT article: [INDENT]I mean simply to show that works of serious art can occur in situations where moral and aesthetic considerations are complex; the effect of good art is to make them only more complex. Among other things, “Fort Blossom revisited” showed how the erotic and the unerotic can coincide bewilderingly. [/INDENT] I’m not a big fan of the avant garde, but saying that it’s inherently bad or anti-American or has no business existing seems silly. I could denigrate NASCAR, the Grand Ole Opry, and Baptist Church music on many points, but meh, why bother? If there’s nothing there in an avant garde performance, then eventually there won’t be many people in the audience. And the ones who are in the audience aren’t doing the OP any great harm. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/37 "2012-08-18T21:37:20Z")
If I have to pick between watching NASCAR or a bunch of dancers shove dildos up their asses I don’t know which I would choose. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/38 "2012-08-18T21:45:12Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I agree with the OP. Who wants to put the Nutcracker and a dildo up an ass in the same category? _Double entendré_ intended? Anyway, does a dildo up the ass have any sort of artistic shock value any more, now that you can see it anytime in the comfort of your own home with just a few clicks? The days of Maplethorpe are long gone. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/39 "2012-08-18T21:48:29Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I agree with the OP. Who wants to put the Nutcracker and a dildo up an ass in the same category? According to Dan Savage, the correct term is “ballbusters.” ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2012, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892/40 "2012-08-18T21:48:44Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Well, what the fuck is he supposed to stuff in all those pigeonholes? Pigeons? In the context of this discussion, I would prefer not to think about stuffing pigeons anywhere. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-mr-ny-times-art-critic-a-dildo-up-your-butt-is-not-art/631892.md?page=3)