# "No Need for Star Trek" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 6, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726 "2005-05-06T18:23:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/1 "2005-05-06T18:23:37Z")
Orson Scott Card really slams ST in this article: [http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-oe-card3may03.story](http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-oe-card3may03.story) It’s funny that Card blames Roddenberry for this. So much of what made ST hack sci-fi was done despite Roddenberry’s efforts. Gene’s first choice of captain, Pike, was turned down by the network execs who wanted a “Two-fisted fightin’ man” running the ship (a la Kirk). Likewise, the groundbreaking step of having a female first officer (Majel Barret) was quashed by the execs who couldn’t wrap their minds around it in those pre-feminism days. So it’s a bit unfair of Card to attack ol’ Gene for the sins of the NBC money men. Also, Sci-fi as a genre was not taken seriously by the media. Sci-fi was “kid’s stuff” and b-movie material even though films like “The Day The Earth Stood Still” showed that a flying saucer flick could be a quality production with real writing and acting. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/2 "2005-05-06T19:01:29Z")
Some of the points he makes are valid, but it’s coming from the wrong guy. Except for a couple of outstanding works, Card had let an ever increasing stream of jejune vapidity drip from his anus and call it novels. Any long term series or franchise is going to have weak spots, the Way of the Trek is no exception. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/3 "2005-05-06T19:07:11Z")
Orson Scott Card is a raving loony, but some of his points are valid. _Voyager_ and _Enterprise_ have largely been boring, repetitive tripe. DS9 was at least saved by becoming a soap opera (and an excellent one at that.) It will be refreshing to see something else take over Trek’s chunk of the Paramount budget. (Though knowing them, we’ll probably end up with another spin-off of _Happy Days_.) ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/4 "2005-05-06T19:19:52Z")
Of course there’s no need for Star Trek, it’s a TV show. That doesn’t mean there’s no _place_ for Star Trek – anybody who makes his living writing fiction should recognize this. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/5 "2005-05-06T19:46:58Z")
Card’s denigration of the series by comparing it to the writing of good SF writers is pretty weird – one of the things the original series had going for it was the presence of so many SF writers – Episodes were written by (or based on stories by): Harlan Ellison Theodore Sturgeon Robert Bloch Norman Spinrad Fredric Brown David Gerrold (Who wasn’t yet a name SF writer, but would shortly become one.) The same was true of the planned-but never-made second series (there’s a book on the series, including episode ideas pitched by established SF writers). Heck, even the animated series that ran in 1973-4 had scripts by Gerrold and one based on Larry Niven. One of my complaints about the various subsequent series is that they _didn’t_ have a lot of input from established SF writers. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/6 "2005-05-06T19:49:19Z")
It’s also ironic that he suspects Trek fans of not reading science fiction at all, when the opposite is most likely the case. And he leaves out the fact that some of the best known SF writers, such as Sturgeon and Ellison, to name a few, wrote some of Trek’s better eps. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/7 "2005-05-06T20:12:18Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Likewise, the groundbreaking step of having a female first officer (Majel Barret) was quashed by the execs who couldn’t wrap their minds around it in those pre-feminism days. Don’t forget the network also initially airbrushed Spock’s ears because the couldn’t wrap their minds around an outer space mission 300 years in the future actually having someone from outer space in the crew. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/8 "2005-05-06T21:00:39Z")
Star Trek has survived critics before, this is no different. Berman and Braga are already working on the next ST project, which will hopefully be several warp factors better than Enterprise was. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/9 "2005-05-06T21:19:15Z")
“There’s just no need for “Star Trek” anymore.” To be fair, I haven’t had any need for Orson Scott Card in years. This just confirms it. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/10 "2005-05-06T21:41:49Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Some of the points he makes are valid, but it’s coming from the wrong guy. Except for a couple of outstanding works, Card had let an ever increasing stream of jejune vapidity drip from his anus and call it novels. > > Any long term series or franchise is going to have weak spots, the Way of the Trek is no exception. Card would know about this considering how he diluted the Ender saga with pointless sequels. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/11 "2005-05-06T21:50:22Z")
> [@Spatial Rift 47](#): > > Star Trek has survived critics before, this is no different. Berman and Braga are already working on the next ST project, which will hopefully be several warp factors better than Enterprise was. Survive _critics_?! I’m hoping it can survive Berman and Braga! ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/12 "2005-05-06T21:53:31Z")
I think y’all are being a little too dismissive of this article. It is, after all, written by an expert in the field. If you want to know about over-rated sci-fi hackwork created by an under-talented “writer” long past his dubius prime, Orson Scott Card is your go-to guy. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/13 "2005-05-06T22:00:53Z")
What I’d like to know is, where is all this super-brilliant modern SF TV of which Card speaks so highly? I haven’t seen any of “Lost”, but, even if it’s everything Card says it is, it’s still only one show, amid an awful lot of dross. I mean, there’s stuff out there that makes “Enterprise” look like flippin’ Tolstoy by comparison … ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/14 "2005-05-06T22:05:21Z")
And how the hell did [this](http://www.sflare.com/archives/2004/12/15/orson-scott-card-to-write-iron-man/) happen? ---
**Author:** ![AveDementia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@AveDementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AveDementia)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/15 "2005-05-07T00:52:58Z")
What an odd little article. Why is he offended that stuff he considers crap has fans? A few things stand out. Quotes by Orson Scott Card: > [@](#): > > I swear I’ve heard of people who quit their jobs and moved just so they could live in a city that had “Star Trek” running every day. Anyone else heard of this? Or anything like this? Is he starting his own urban legend? > [@](#): > > They wrote messages in Klingon He mentions this as happening after the original series ended. I though Klingon-speak only came about after the movies and TNG. Did they actually have Klingon in the 70s? And did they have the slash fiction that he describes in this next quote: > [@](#): > > they wrote their own stories about the characters, filling in what was left out — including, in one truly specialized subgenre, the “Kirk-Spock” stories in which their relationship was not as platonic and emotionless as the TV show depicted it. I was under the impression that was mostly an internet phenomenon. Is anyone aware of Kirk/Spock slash from the 70s? And I have a few questions about this: > [@](#): > > Mostly, though, they wrote and wrote and wrote letters. To the networks. To the production company. To the stars and minor characters and guest stars and grips of the series, inviting them to attend conventions and speak about the events on the series as if they had really happened, instead of being filmed on a tatty little set with cheesy special effects. I understand that he’s exaggerating about people writing to the “grips of the series”, but I have to ask about the part about “[to] speak about the events on the series as if they had really happened”. Is he having a Galaxy Quest moment? Because I can’t really picture any of the Enterprise crew speaking about “that time we were in orbit around Talos 4…” They come on as actors speaking about the role they did, as far as I have seen (at conventions). Anyone have any idea what he is referencing here? And the part about being filmed on a tatty little set with cheesy special effects? Hmph. I guess hes never seen Doctor Who, then? Sometimes the cheese just makes it better. Other posters have addressed the problems with the second half of the article, so I won’t repeat them. Thanks to anyone who can help answer the questions I have. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/16 "2005-05-07T01:11:05Z")
> [@AveDementia](#): > > I though Klingon-speak only came about after the movies and TNG. Did they actually have Klingon in the 70s? And did they have the slash fiction that he describes in this next quote: > > \ > > I was under the impression that was mostly an internet phenomenon. Is anyone aware of Kirk/Spock slash from the 70s? The Klingons weren’t the cool villians from TOS – the Romulans were. I don’t remember any TOS episode with Klingons speaking anything else than English with a growl – although I’m willing to be corrected on this. There weren’t Klingon-sounding words yet. However, I’m going to give Card the benefit of the doubt on the other question. Even before ST went into reruns, the obsessed created what were called _fanzines_ – cheap little mimeographed newsletters that were passed around and mailed from fan club to fan club. Almost all of the 'zines had at least one script or story outline in every issue. I’m reasonably confident that there had to be at least one or two proto-slash ideas in them somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/17 "2005-05-07T01:30:39Z")
> [@AveDementia](#): > > I was under the impression that was mostly an internet phenomenon. Is anyone aware of Kirk/Spock slash from the 70s? Oh, it definately existed. If you pick up a copy of the novelization for ST:TMP and read the “forward” by Kirk, it makes passing reference to this (in that Kirk says he’d be pretty stupid to shack up with Spock since Spock only got horny once every 7 years), the reason being that even in those pre-internet days, people were having Kirk and Spock do the nasty. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/18 "2005-05-07T01:35:18Z")
> [@](#): > > they wrote their own stories about the characters, filling in what was left out — including, in one truly specialized subgenre, the “Kirk-Spock” stories in which their relationship was not as platonic and emotionless as the TV show depicted it. This from the guy who has so many little naked children running through his books? :wally ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/19 "2005-05-07T01:46:58Z")
> [@AveDementia](#): > > He mentions this as happening after the original series ended. I though Klingon-speak only came about after the movies and TNG. Did they actually have Klingon in the 70s? I am told that were were cassette tapes and writing in some version of Klingon at the first conventions. I do not know if they are related to the language developed for the films. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/20 "2005-05-07T01:48:42Z")
Last Card Novel I enjoyed: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726.md?page=2)