# "No Need for Star Trek" **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 6, 2005, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726 "2005-05-06T18:23:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/21 "2005-05-07T01:50:05Z")
I’m still thinking… ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/22 "2005-05-07T02:00:09Z")
> [@](#): > > I was under the impression that was mostly an internet phenomenon. Is anyone aware of Kirk/Spock slash from the 70s? From what I remember, ST fan fiction in the 70’s was mostly written by female fans, and often had plots where Kirk and/or Spock rescue and fall madly in love with a female who looks remarkably like the author. Also, there were those books that went heavily into the ‘alpha male’ thing. I forget what they were called, but they were hugely popular among fans, and I think they served the function of soft-core porn for female fans. Don’t recall any man-on-alien action, though. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/23 "2005-05-07T02:12:07Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Don’t recall any man-on-alien action, though. First slash written by Gerry Downs, of Anchorage (however you spell it) Alaska, sometime in the 70’s. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/24 "2005-05-07T02:18:29Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Also, there were those books that went heavily into the ‘alpha male’ thing. I forget what they were called, but they were hugely popular among fans, and I think they served the function of soft-core porn for female fans. Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath’s _The Price of the Pheonix_ (1977) was drowning in that alpha-male crap, though it did feature that female Romulan commander from _The Enterprise Incident_, which almost made it halfway moderately remotely readable. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/25 "2005-05-07T02:24:15Z")
Don’t rush me!! ---
**Author:** ![GythaOgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GythaOgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GythaOgg)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/26 "2005-05-07T02:29:46Z")
There is a website called ‘The Foresmutters Project’ that documents the very early days of Trek slash, including a bibliography and some of the stories available to read. Don’t have the link at the moment, but it should turn up on Google. There actually is serious academic interest in the subject, believe it or not. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/27 "2005-05-07T04:28:04Z")
Did anyone else take a look at the thread title and think, “Star Trek Muyo!”? And imagine the adventures of the starship Ryo-oh-ki? No? Just me? Okay. _slinks away_ ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/28 "2005-05-07T04:39:04Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath’s _The Price of the Pheonix_ (1977) was drowning in that alpha-male crap, though it did feature that female Romulan commander from _The Enterprise Incident_, which almost made it halfway moderately remotely readable. That’s the one! Actually, there was a trilogy of those, wasn’t there? “The Fate of the Phoenix”, and some other one. Maybe, “The Tailor of the Phoenix”, or “The Torn Shirt of the Phoenix” or something. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/29 "2005-05-07T04:42:17Z")
Yes, and they were all unreadable. Sondra Marshak and Myrna Culbreath were hacks, plain and simple. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/30 "2005-05-07T05:18:50Z")
Not exactly slash, but _National Lampoon_ published a pornographic Star Trek story by Chris Miller in 1971. ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/31 "2005-05-07T05:23:17Z")
> [@Spatial Rift 47](#): > > Star Trek has survived critics before, this is no different. Berman and Braga are already working on the next ST project, which will hopefully be several warp factors better than Enterprise was. What will they give us… a new series with story arcs focused on the “Temporal War on Terror”? Perhaps they should just turn it over to Coto? ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/32 "2005-05-07T07:32:37Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Last Card Novel I enjoyed: I got it!! 😃 Me and the Orgone No wait!! :eek: That was by Orson Bean! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/33 "2005-05-07T09:01:10Z")
> [@Spatial Rift 47](#): > > Star Trek has survived critics before, this is no different. Berman and Braga are already working on the next ST project, which will hopefully be several warp factors better than Enterprise was. Going to have to call for a cite on this because I don’t want any more B&B Trek. As far as I knew Braga was working on a non Trek SF show called _Threshold_. I’m not sure why he named his new show after the worst episode of Voyager but it’s Braga so there you go… here’s [some details from TrekToday](http://www.trektoday.com/news/050505_01.shtml). I haven’t read anything about what Berman is up to but I don’t think Trek will hit him in the ass on his way out the door. ---
**Author:** ![PETERFI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@PETERFI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PETERFI)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/34 "2005-05-07T10:19:44Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Orson Scott Card really slams ST in this article: First, I have to make the point that I think that Card is a 1st class SF and Fantasy author (there is a distinct difference in his SF and Fantasy offerings - Lost Boys is Horror so a third Genre) His Ender’s Game series is incredible and well worth the read for those not familiar with his work. But I think he is overly optomistic about the death of the ST world as most SF writers have been over the last 30 years - why? Because for all the schmaltz there are ideals in the Star Trek Universe that appeal to people and Space Western or not, one of the things that Card overlooked about the original series was that behind the fistfights, the pointy ears and the skirts, ST was, in each episode about ideas. Sometimes they were not deep. Sometimes they were silly. But ideas they were. Spock communicating with the wounded Horta. What happens to the course of time if you prevent a famous social worker from dying at her appointed time? How do you impact a civilization if you overwhelm it with new technology - The Prime Directive stating that you MUST not. The ST universe portrays an earth where most of earth’s social problems, poverty, energy, pollution, crime are solved. The problems to be faced are out there and we go out boldly to embrace them. It is the very spirit of Americanism and so it is bound to return. Enterprise was interesting but ultimately a mistake. Star Fleet Academy might have been a better idea. A prequil with Jean Luc as a cadet if you wanted to go back in time a little. But now that has been done. A few years will pass and I think demand will grow again and a new ST will emerge. Perhaps it will take a decade, but I think now. ST is just too big a moneymaker for Paramount, et al. But I think that as the technology for showing hard SF on TV has gotten much less expensive in the last few years, and this will continue with the new Apple and other new systems on the market, you will see even better higher quality special effects and even more sophisticated science as the audience readies for it. In the mean time, hard core audiences have had the fun of seeing Shatner play brilliant oddball Denny Crane on The Firm and its sucessor Boston Public. Shatner is not Nimoy, but after seeing those performances I think one would have to agree that Shatner does have Charisma. Lots of Charisma. He just has so much fun at what he does, you never quite know what is going on in there anymore. Peter ---
**Author:** ![Monstre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@Monstre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monstre)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/35 "2005-05-07T14:24:21Z")
> [@The Peter Files](#): > > In the mean time, hard core audiences have had the fun of seeing Shatner play brilliant oddball Denny Crane on The Firm and its sucessor Boston Public. I presume you mean _Boston Legal_, unless Shatner got hired to teach high school and Principal Harper is getting on his case for shooting a phaser in class. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/36 "2005-05-07T14:56:53Z")
“Is that a phaser I see before me?” is much better in its original Klingon. BTW, I think **Cliffy** said it best for all of us. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/37 "2005-05-07T15:49:05Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > As far as I knew Braga was working on a non Trek SF show called _Threshold_. > > \ > > I haven’t read anything about what Berman is up to but I don’t think Trek will hit him in the ass on his way out the door. [The Untitled Trek Prequel](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408305/) ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/38 "2005-05-07T16:13:51Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Did anyone else take a look at the thread title and think, “Star Trek Muyo!”? And imagine the adventures of the starship Ryo-oh-ki? I’d watch it. It would be an improvement over the recent offerings. ---
**Author:** ![PETERFI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/2bfe46/32.png) [@PETERFI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PETERFI)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/39 "2005-05-08T03:34:33Z")
> [@Monstre](#): > > I presume you mean _Boston Legal_, unless Shatner got hired to teach high school and Principal Harper is getting on his case for shooting a phaser in class. 😉 While writing the post I was distracted by several Images of Ms. Ryan as 7 of 9 who appears in much less form-fitting outfits in Boston Public. She by the way achieved some notoriety in my home State of Illinois when the details of her sealed divorce documents with Senatorial Candidate Jack Ryan came out. She came out smelling like a rose and he wound up smelling like an ex-candidate. Coninued ST casting and costuming trends are part of the show’s long term sucess. Peter ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726/40 "2005-05-08T03:48:23Z")
> [@Spatial Rift 47](#): > > [The Untitled Trek Prequel](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408305/) Braga is listed nowhere in the production or creative crew for that, if it’s even legitimate. (THANK OG!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-need-for-star-trek/302726.md?page=3)