How was this accomplished before TVs had digital tuners?
Thanks, whitetho, I had totally forgotten that.
If this thread is going to continue any further, I suggest that we define our terms better. Here is my understanding of USA usage of these terms:
CHANNEL – A channel is a specific range of frequencies used for broadcasting. A governmental body (FCC, in the US) sets the boundaries between one channel and the next, insuring that they do not overlap and that the TV receiver know what frequency to aim for. Said governmental body also assigns specific channels (ie, frequencies) to specific broadcasters. I suppose channels might overlap, but then part of the task of the governmental body is to avoid assigning the overlapping channels to broadcasters who might be received in a common area.
(Channels exist in radio too, except we don’t perceive them as such because they are not called such by integer numbers. Instead, they are called by their frequency. For example, valid US FM channels are at 99.1, 99.5, 99.9, 100.3, 100.7, 101.1, 101.5, and such. Notice how they are 0.4 apart from each other?)
STATION - This is the same as a broadcaster. You can have many stations on the same channel, as long as they are far apart geographically to minimize the chance of a receiver getting both signals at the same time. I imagine that people midway between cities run into this a lot, especially on a clear night with a powerful antenna. I know it happens on radio plenty.
NETWORK - This is a company which supplies an organized set of show to their member Stations. The network (AFAIK) does not supply shows on a 24/7 basis, though they seem to be moving in that direction, especially the biggest ones. The biggest networks supply morning news and talk shows, afternoon soaps, evening primetime, and late-night talk shows. Stations do not have to take and broadcast everything the network offers, but I’m sure there is a lot of fine print regarding this in the agreements between them. Some of the commercial advertising comes from the network, and some from the station, and the station can’t control the network ads. (That’s why an ad for another show on the same network used to include the disclaimer “on most of these ABC stations”.) Bottom line is that what you see on the NBC affiliate in New York is not identical to what you will see on the NBC affiliate in Los Angeles or the NBC affiliate in Peoria, but there will be substantial overlap. Plus, there are (or at least used to be) some stations which were affiliated with more than one network, and they’d show some shows from each.
I’m sure I got some of this wrong, and that someone will set me straight soon. But its a good start.
When you have cable, it’s even more confusing. Stations that broadcast in the VHF frequency range are usually assigned the same cable channel number as their broadcast channel number. So cable channel 2 is the same as over-the-air channel 2. But UHF stations are almost always put onto different cable channels. So cable channel 12 is really over-the-air channel 44, and cable channel 13 is channel 20. The TV Guide, of course, lists only the over-the-air channel numbers, so you have to remember that to watch that show that TV Guide says is on channel 44, you tune to cable channel 12.
And when a person like me who talks in terms of the over-the-air/TV Guide channels talks to a person who doesn’t get TV Guide and just thinks in terms of the cable channels, much fun ensues.
And now, of course, the ultimate confusion: galt is a bit behind the times. In the San Francisco area, channel 4 is now independent and channel 11 is the NBC affiliate. Lower channel numbers are (for some reason) deemed more desirable, so when channel 11 became NBC, they conned … er talked most (or maybe all) the local cable companies into putting channel 11 on channel 3. And the station even bills itself as “NBC-3”. So now when I talk about channel 11, I get a lot of blank stares until I “correct” myself and say channel 3. And, of course, the TV Guide still lists it as channel 11, even though the advertisement right on the same page says “NBC-3”.
Let’s not even go into what happens when you add HDTV into the mix and get a third channel number for the same station…
I think you mean 0.2. Here in Spokane, two of our stations broadcast on 103.9 and 105.7, which are 1.8 MHz apart (not a multiple of 0.4).
For some reason, my Aiwa car stereo tunes every 0.1 MHz (92.9, 93.0, 93.1, 93.2…), even though I’ve never seen an even-numbered station. My Kenwood home stereo does the same thing.
To complicate things even more, in the US, the FCC is forcing TV stations to vacate channels 52-59, and it’s redesignated those channels for other use, and the stations all need to be off by 2005, I believe. At the same time, the FCC is mandating that all TV broadcast stations convert from analog broadcasting to digital broadcasting, which will allow more stations to fit in fewer channels.
Very interesting, Mr2001.
Do 103.9 and 105.7 both come out of Spokane? Maybe one is from another city?
Or, more likely, less-populated areas have the stations 0.6 apart, while here in NYC there’s so much demand that they have to be 0.4. But both my cars go in 0.2 increments.
Anyone else?
When you have cable, it’s even more confusing. Stations that broadcast in the VHF frequency range are usually assigned the same cable channel number as their broadcast channel number. So cable channel 2 is the same as over-the-air channel 2. But UHF stations are almost always put onto different cable channels. So cable channel 12 is really over-the-air channel 44, and cable channel 13 is channel 20. The TV Guide, of course, lists only the over-the-air channel numbers, so you have to remember that to watch that show that TV Guide says is on channel 44, you tune to cable channel 12.
And when a person like me who talks in terms of the over-the-air/TV Guide channels talks to a person who doesn’t get TV Guide and just thinks in terms of the cable channels, much fun ensues.
And now, of course, the ultimate confusion: galt is a bit behind the times. In the San Francisco area, channel 4 is now independent and channel 11 is the NBC affiliate. Lower channel numbers are (for some reason) deemed more desirable, so when channel 11 became NBC, they conned … er talked most (or maybe all) the local cable companies into putting channel 11 on channel 3. And the station even bills itself as “NBC-3”. So now when I talk about channel 11, I get a lot of blank stares until I “correct” myself and say channel 3. And, of course, the TV Guide still lists it as channel 11, even though the advertisement right on the same page says “NBC-3”.
Let’s not even go into what happens when you add HDTV into the mix and get a third channel number for the same station…
Wow, Roadfood, that’s neat. Did you press “submit reply” twice, and do it 2 1/2 hours apart? I’m really curious…
We don’t seem to worry what channel number a particular station is broadcasting on here in the UK. We just go by the name ( BBC1 , ITV , CH 5 etc ). On most TVs you just set up, via the electronic tuning ,what number ( I am loath to say "channel "as that may cause confusion ) you want to assign to each station and then call up this number via the remote control. The same goes for setting up your VCR. This holds good for terrestrial broadcasts but on digital satellite , where there are hundreds of stations , all this is taken care of for you via the on-screen Electronic Programme Guide which will get you to your chosen broadcast very quickly and give you details of programme content.
They’re both in Spokane. One or both might broadcast from outside the city limits, but almost all our radio towers are within a few miles of each other.
The distances between stations aren’t all multiples of 0.4 or 0.6:
92.9 to 94.5 = 1.6 MHz
94.5 to 96.1 = 1.6 MHz
96.1 to 96.9 = 0.8 MHz
96.9 to 98.1 = 1.2 MHz
98.1 to 98.9 = 0.8 MHz
98.9 to 101.1 = 2.2 MHz
101.1 to 103.9 = 1.8 MHz
103.9 to 105.7 = 2.2 MHz
105.7 to 107.9 = 2.2 MHz
This site, a summary of FCC allocations, lists frequencies 88-108 as FM broadcast with a spacing of 200 KHz (0.2 MHz).
My head is now clear. To tie up the differences in nomenclature…
In Britain you have five “channels” which we in the U.S. call networks. So your BBC1 is the equivalent of our NBC, so to speak.
In Britain your cable/satellite “channels” are the same as our cable/satellite "networks. We have dozens of them, and most people with cable service receive at least 50 or 60.
Not everyone in the U.S. has cable service, however. The last statistic I heard was something like 2/3 or 3/4 of households received cable or satellite.
So Usram, next time the subject comes up with your American friends, simply say “we have five national channels, which you call networks, and of course we have many cable channels.” Don’t use the terms “terrestrial” or “analog.” We simply don’t understand those terms.
A Brief Guide to American Terrestrial Television Networks:
ABC - American Broadcasting Company
NBC - National Broadcasting Company
CBS - Columbia Broadcasting Sytem
FOX - 20th Century-Fox
PBS - Public Broadcasting Service
UPN - United Paramount Network
WB - Warner Brothers
CBN - Christian Broadcasting Network
HSN - Home Shopping Network
UNI - Univision
PAX - Paxson Communications
ABC, NBC, CBS, FOX and PBS are established networks seen in virtually every market. UPN and WB are essentially branded content providers with national reach. CBN, HSN, and UNI are targeted to specific demographies that may exist in some markets but not others (for example, there’s likely to be little demand for Spanish language programming in Alaska, Hawaii or Iowa). Most markets also have unaffiliated independent stations providing a mixture of locally produced and syndicated programming.
“ABC” stands for the “American Broadcasting Companies,” or, it used to, anyway, before it was bought out by Disney.
In the U.S., there’s always a struggle between networks and their affiliates over the amount of time allocated to network programming. For many years, the networks have been trying to expand their 6:30 p.m. newscasts to a full hour and to start their late-night programming at 11 p.m. instead of 11:30. However, these are the most lucrative times for affiliates to broadcast their own programmes (usually local news or syndicated shows) and have refused to give it up.
Is there a similar situation in the U.K.?
I guess what I’m trying to say is that local stations have a degree of independence with regard to their programme schedules. Just because they are affiliated with a national network doesn’t mean they are surrendering their authority to schedule their broadcast day. In fact, the FCC specifically holds the local station — not the network — responsible for what is aired, to the extent that it might be important.
An affiliate may refuse to air any particular network show and they have a lot of influence over the shows that networks choose to air, especially when it comes to late-night programming. You might notice that there are several markets in which you can’t see your favourite late-night programme or you can’t see it in its network time slot, whether it’s David Letterman, Conan O’Brien, Jay Leno, or Ted Koppel.
No. We don’t really have your system of “affiliates”. Four of the networks are wholly owned and run by single organisations. The other one, ITV, is a federation of independent regional TV stations, but it is the stations who control ITV, and they get the advertising revenue. They do have centralised scheduling and commissioning, but “ITV” is little more than a collective brand name, it is not a commercial entity like NBC or CBS and does not make any programmes itself.
It should be noted that PBS in the US is sort of a cross between BBC and ITV in the UK.
It’s BBC-ish to the extent that perhaps half it’s funding comes from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, a government agency that has no direct influence on program content. The majority of the remainder is underwritten by corporations who wish to appear civic-minded, and the rest comes from voluntary viewer subscriptions solicited in telethon fashion several times per year.
It’s ITV-ish in the sense that the larger stations such as WNET (New York), WGBH (Boston), WTTW (Chicago) and others produce original programming that it syndicates exclusively among itself.
There are also organizations that hold stations in key cities but don’t consitute a network per se. For example, the Chicago Tribune owns 24 independent stations including KTLA (Los Angeles), WGN (Chicago) and WPIX (New York), which gives it the market presence necessary to commission its own programming and ensure it a national audience.
But this wasn’t always the case.
The Tribune enjoyed a unique relationship with Britain’s ATV (the predecessor to Carlton) in the 60s and 70s by way of WPIX in New York. ITC (the evil American arm of ATV) couldn’t always sell programming to the major American networks, but if it could sell to WPIX it could get broad national distribution via the Tribune empire without having to sell to the nation’s 500 independent television stations individually.
This relationship lasted roughly from Supercar to The Muppet Show, after which the Tribune began to acquire, produce and syndicate much of it’s own programming ranging from the forgettable Dempsey and Makepeace in the early days to the equally forgettable Earth: Final Conflict today, with a few short-lived gems such as Monsters (a tongue-in-cheek horror anthology) in between.