# No offence to US citizens, but I wouldn't live there in a pink fit! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 6, 2002, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257 "2002-09-06T08:24:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/81 "2002-09-07T05:37:36Z")
Bugger. \*Memo to all G’Dopers: Our cover has been blown. They have discovered the Australian Syndicate. Please lie low until Cecil T. Bear is delivered into our evil clutches. Yours in Conspiracy kambuckta… ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/82 "2002-09-07T05:41:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eve \* > \*\*Well, if you _do_ have a pink fit, may I suggest Provincetown, San Francisco or the West Village? I’d avoid the deep South and much of the Midwest, they don’t take kindly to pink fits. \*\* Oh, you New Yorkers! You’re so provincial! 😉 First state to repeal its sodomy law: Illinois (1961). First state to have a gay rights statute: Wisconsin (1982). First state to elect an openly lesbian candidate to Congress: Wisconsin (Tammy Baldwin). First state to have an openly gay Republican Congressman: Wisconsin (Steve Gunderson). Best place in the country to live if you’re a lesbian, according to _Girlfriends_ magazine: Milwaukee (2001) ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/83 "2002-09-07T05:41:08Z")
How’d I end up in The Pit? I was reading an interesting thread about where people would and would not like to live in IMHO. All of a sudden it started getting hot and the smell of barbeque sauce wafted out of my screen. I like cities. I like my city. I’d like to try out London and Sydney and other cities where I know the language and there’s not too much nature. Yeah, you heard me-- not too much nature. A friend of mine lives in New Jersey. Her town _pretends_ it’s part of some large metro area but they ain’t fooling me. She’s got ducks that invade her grass. She’s got to hang her garbage up so the raccoons don’t get at it. Large bugs fly into her kitchen window. Really, really large non-cockaroach, multi-colored type bugs that leave very large non-cockaroach, multi-colored little corpses all over the place. Grass, ducks, raccoons and large non-cockaroach type bugs. Waaaay to much nature. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/84 "2002-09-07T05:41:24Z")
Well, on the east coast, it’s 3.35 pm Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/85 "2002-09-07T05:47:05Z")
Let’s see … Being a Yank and having lived in Australia for a considerable time, I think I have some qualifications in this thread. The hard part in attempting an opinion here (assuming you’re an Aussie or a Yank reading this) is quite a few things just _don’t translate_ between the countries. I can waffle on about the good and bad points about each country. However, unless you have experience living for an extended period in the other country you will end up making a judgement about the opposing country with a limited perspective using your own country’s values and standards to compare one with the other. Such as this … > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kambuckta \* > Anyway, American beer is crap…I could NEVER live there!! 😃 If you grew up in America you grew up with primarily lager beers. While Australia has some fine lagers, compared to Americans, Aussies don’t drink them. OTOH, I think many Americans might find it strange drinking a Coopers with all the floaty bits in it, but might very well enjoy a West End Eagle Blue. Then again, Americans are inundated with Fosters beer ads (“Fosters. Australian for beer.”) but a Yank in Oz would be hard-pressed to find a Fosters Downunder. One, because Fosters is made for export, and, two, Fosters is really crappy beer in the first place. Ironically, the parent company that makes Fosters makes VB. Now _that’s_ a beer IMHO. I just can’t get any here. ☹ That’s just one very simplified example. I could go on and on about the food and drink in comparisons. The countries have many similarities and many differences. But they are not good vs bad. There’s quite a bit of gray, or grey, depending upon your country. Cultures, ethnicities, business accumen, government policies, outlook on life, leisure attitude, geography, climate, education priorities, yadda, yadda have similarities and differences. Just remember any comparisons are not always linear. Take political parties. America has its two majors, the Democrats and the Republicans. So does Australia with Labor and the Liberals. The easy way out is to do this kinda comparison: Democrats=Labor while Republicans=Liberals. But this does not translate correctly and in some areas, it just doesn’t translate. Bt I’ll continue to try. 🙂 Many Aussies see Yanks and their patriotism as arrogant and self-indulgent. Yet at the same time, there’s been an upsurge in “patriotism” in Australia with respect to the ANZACS and ANZAC Day in particular. Just don’t attribute it to “patriotism.” Another is national identity. Americans are Americans. Sure we are Italian-Americans, Greek-Americans, Polish-Americans, African-Americans, yadda, yadda. But for the most part, when you start talking with Americans about America, the \-American ends up being American, especially in times of crisis. In Australia, I found _very little_, if any of that. There are Italians, Greeks, Germans, yadda, yadda, but not “Australians.” I knew Aussies with bloodlines going back two, three, four generations born and raised in Australia, yet they don’t, no, they _won’t_ call themselves “Australians.” They’re still Italians, Greeks, Germans, yadda, yadda, even though if they visit the “old country,” they have very little in common with it. Aussies don’t identify under the “Australian” banner as Americans do. Call it cultural cringe or a serious national inferiority complex, but being an “Australian,” at least at home just ain’t in the cards. Perhaps the “multicultural” political bull has a bit to do with it. (Yes, a bias here.) And yes, my use of the phrase “serious national inferiority complex,” is accurate, IMHO. The best example is Australian extensive use of the diminutive everywhere you go, on television (by newcasters), academics, business people. The lot. A word here and there doesn’t strike a cord. Yet, after breky I saw the postie on the way to uni, waved at the garbo, almost hit a bikie, had a few bikkies at morning tea, etc., get to be _too much_ especially when coming from educated, worldly, attuned individuals. Sometimes I just wanted to grab them by the collar and scream, “Bloody Hell! Quit the baby talk crap. Now make a fucking decision, will ya!!!” (And yes, the apparent inability to make a decision is another story, too.) Yet, In Australia the concept of “mateship” has no translation in America. Putting aside the socialist, bigoted claptrap baggage some attach to the being a “mate,” but it carries a very deep friendship between and among people. Americans have friends and best friends, and so do Australians. But Aussies also have “mates.” I guess the closest attempt at translation fits with veterans who actually went to war. When you’re counting on your buddy to watch your back on patrol, the bond that forms under such circumstances often lasts a lifetime, come hell or high water. You don’t have to go to that life and death extreme to become a mate but the results are very similar. I have quite a few mates in Oz. If I went back today, after a few welcomes and such, we’d pick up as though we were never apart. Now I know I’ve kinda taken the dark look at Australia but not the same for America. Let me assure those Aussie Dopers that America and Americans have plenty of Dark Side crap as well, thankyouverymuch. In fact, whatever negative crap you want to toss and see what sticks, I can go two up on that anytime. There is quite a bit of real negative crap you don’t here about America, just there is quite a bit of abso-bloody wonderful stuff about America and Yanks you’ll never know, unless you come here, stay _a while_ and allow yourself to absorb it, especially the stuff that doesn’t translate. The same applies for Americans and their views of Australia. The big question. Would I go back to Oz and live there again? First off, I can go back at any time and live/work there. I have no restrictions (dual-citizenship has its advantages!). Oh, answering the question. Tough call. There is so much I dearly love about Aussies and Australia, and so much I really hate that beating one’s head against a brick wall is the better option. I’m sure Aussies who lived in America and can go back to America would say the say thing, too. But in the end, if you have an opportunity to freely live in either country, and actually do, I believe your birth country imprints something in you that leaves the deeper impression. I will go back to Australia. Definitely to visit. Maybe to live again. Hell, I have to go back once more just to get my mandatory superannuation I have invested there (the fuckwit politicians won’t let me move it to America!). I do believe Americans and Australians are cut from the same cloth. More similarities than differences. Any many of those differences should not be seen as positive vs negative. Mostly positive differences. Except for the beer. I do miss my VB! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/86 "2002-09-07T05:48:44Z")
[sup]pssst… **kambuckta** … the Evil Merkins have discovered our highly advanced secret code. From now on, we will no longer disguise the word “humor” by putting an extra “u” in it. We’ll call it “Bruce” instead.[/sup] ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/87 "2002-09-07T05:57:47Z")
Oh fer fuck’s sake! Any of you buggers want a beer? Fosters, Bud, whatever. As long as it’s cold. ---
**Author:** ![chula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a4c791/32.png) [@chula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chula)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/88 "2002-09-07T05:59:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TheLoadedDog \* > **Seriously, that’s the first time I’ve heard that. I suspect sexism is at roughly the same level here as in the US. The way Australia is portrayed overseas might reinforce the notion that we are a sexist country, given the emphasis on the Outback, guys wrestling crocodiles, etc. Most Aussie males live in the 'burbs though, and have more in common with Homer Simpson than the Crocodile Hunter (‘cept me, o’ course 😃 ).** That’s weird that you’ve never heard that Austalian men are sexist. I’ve heard that opinion expressed many times over the years, from Australians and people who have lived there. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/89 "2002-09-07T06:01:01Z")
You shouting **Loaded**? You can chuck 'us a cider acksherly. I don’t drink beer. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/90 "2002-09-07T06:04:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chula \* > \*\*That’s weird that you’ve never heard that Austalian men are sexist. I’ve heard that opinion expressed many times over the years, from Australians and people who have lived there. \*\* Prol’ly some lil’ piece o’ skirt told me - I wouldn’ta paid much attention. 😃 (kidding, ok?) Here y’go **kambuckta**. An icy cold stubby of Mercury Dry. ---
**Author:** ![Anahita](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9a28c/32.png) [@Anahita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anahita)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/91 "2002-09-07T06:04:47Z")
I’m an American who has chosen to live abroad for a number of years. At this point, the US is a great place to visit. Wonderful attractions, good food, cheap stuff and the people are friendly. I’d just rather not live there for life. It’s mostly because of the US’s foreign policy agenda. I don’t want to go into details, but I’d rather not have my tax dollars (I file, but am exempt) go towards funding _some_ of the programs that have become priorities of the US government. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/92 "2002-09-07T06:10:56Z")
Re: Aussie Men and Sexism…(and with the threat of being severely pitted for this statement), I believe it is quite rampant but seems to be most evident in the ‘bogan’ classes. As you go down the socio-economic ladder, sexism (and all the other ‘isms’ for that matter) seem to be more of an issue. Perhaps that can be explained by the fact that when people feel that they have no power over their own lives, they feel a need to exert dominion over others who they percieve as being ‘lesser’ than they. ---
**Author:** ![woolly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ebca7d/32.png) [@woolly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woolly)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/93 "2002-09-07T06:21:18Z")
**kambuckta** , some words of advice from my gradfather … when you find yourself in a hole (or Pit) , the first thing to do is stop digging. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/94 "2002-09-07T06:24:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by woolly \* > \*\ ***kambuckta** , some words of advice from my gradfather … when you find yourself in a hole (or Pit) , the first thing to do is stop digging. 😃 \*\* …or you’ll dig right through to America. 😃 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/95 "2002-09-07T06:30:56Z")
Well, I was thinking of the old adage…‘might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb’…or however it goes… but I will stop digging…masochism was never one of my preferred vices. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/96 "2002-09-07T06:43:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Athena \* > \*\*I’ve lived in 3 different places in the US in my life, and I can honestly say that despite the language similiarity, they’re very different places. The people are different, the feel of the places are different, the whole experience is different. > \*\* I do not doubt it’s true, \*\* Athena \*\* But different to which extent? How these differences would compare with the differences between two different countries? ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/97 "2002-09-07T07:06:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by javaman \* > \*\* > You’re so right. Europeans are so fortunate that they can move and work all over the Continent without visas or work permits \*\* Yes…in theory…Because if you want to move and work in another country, you’ve to know the language. There’s no other european country I could actually live in, currently (apart from Belgium…but it’s not like Belgium is mightily exotic :rolleyes: ) ---
**Author:** ![Anahita](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9a28c/32.png) [@Anahita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anahita)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/98 "2002-09-07T07:12:37Z")
**clairobscur** , you could certainly live in Ireland. You’re English is very good! I agree with you as well, in that living in a different country is far different than living in different parts of the US. I certainly agree that two of the places I’ve lived Philadelphia and a small town in Southern Illinois were as different as one could possibly expect in the same country. The largest culture shock I’ve ever had was moving from Tokyo back to the USA (Tampa). ---
**Author:** ![Anahita](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9a28c/32.png) [@Anahita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anahita)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/99 "2002-09-07T07:13:42Z")
hehe…I of course meant “YOUR” English if very good. It started out where I was going to say, “You’re a very good English speaker,” but then I realized I’ve never actually heard you ‘speak.’ ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2002, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257/100 "2002-09-07T07:28:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anahita \* > \*\*hehe…I of course meant “YOUR” English if very good. It started out where I was going to say, “You’re a very good English speaker,” but then I realized I’ve never actually heard you ‘speak.’ \*\* Indeed, you didn’t…And that’s exactly the problem… And since you mentionned it, I would actually like to live for a couple of years in Ireland… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-offence-to-us-citizens-but-i-wouldnt-live-there-in-a-pink-fit/127257.md?page=6)