No one expects the tomndebb inquisition

[SiXSwordS]

@intention

tomndebbnislam

I can’t get the link to work.

[srzss05]

@SiXSwordS

I can’t get the link to work.

vBulletin Message
Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

[Sleeps_With_Butterflies]

That’s weird. It worked last night but I was too dru… TIRED to read it then and now it doesn’t work at all. It was a list of threads tomndebb participated in but I’ll be damned if I can remember what the search words were because my peek at it was brief.

CONSPIRACY? You decide.

[SiXSwordS]

@Sleeps_With_Butterflies

That’s weird. It worked last night

Er, alrighty then. Is it safe to say that it wasn’t meant to be rhetorical.

[elucidator]

@intention

… I make a clear distinction between Islam and Muslims…

So? Are we to believe that you can impugn and insult a belief system without insulting its adherents? By what magic is such a wondrous effect achieved?

[intention]

@Sleeps_With_Butterflies

That’s weird. It worked last night but I was too dru… TIRED to read it then and now it doesn’t work at all. It was a list of threads tomndebb participated in but I’ll be damned if I can remember what the search words were because my peek at it was brief.

CONSPIRACY? You decide.

Odd, worked for me as well last nite but not this morning.

In any case, the search was simple, just tomndebb and islam. I’ll try linking to the search again, it is here.

Most of the action is in the thread You want a divorce? I’ll behead you.

Here’s a typical post:

@tomndebb

My saying “everything is fine in this the best of all possible Islamic worlds” was an obviously wasted literary allusion to the character Pangloss in Candide.

I am well aware of the literary allusion. It is part and parcel of the lie you have repeated about my position from the first couple of posts you submitted to this thread. You have consistently pretended that I have excused brutality and violence in direct contradiction to my clear statements to the opposite, yet you want to have a hissy fit that I make a fairly clean deduction that when you ascribe a constellation of bad traits to Islam, all of them negative, your are effectively declaring it to be evil. In other words, my deductions of your position based on your words is supposed to be a bad thing while your blatant misrepresentation of my position is OK.

Lies, liars, and lying … I replied, inter alia …

@intention

Tom, that’s twice you’ve called me a liar. That’s way out of line, and it is clear evidence of how you act when you can’t win by logic and discussion. You call people ugly names with absolutely no evidence.

To which tomndebb responded, inter alia

@tomndebb

I have called you a liar. Don’t make me call you an idiot.

You have repeatedly posted the lie that I have either excused or defended violence by various groups. That is a lie. Posting that I see Islam only in the most favorable light is a lie.

That’s why I think there’s a bit more than just coincidence in tomndebb closing the recent thread when he did, and why he should recuse himself when the topic is Islam. tomndebb, you claim above that “Actually, this whole thread is just [my] overheated imagination.” … don’t think so. The moderator repeatedly calling me a liar is not “overheated imagination”, it’s an overheated moderator.

So man up, dude. Bring on the complaints. Show us your hand. Grab your left nut for luck and stop fucking hiding, step up and tell the truth.

Unless you just want to accuse me of lying again and run away without revealing just what was complained about and what I or anyone else did wrong.

I say again: unless the moderators reveal what they don’t like, we will not be able to learn the boundaries.

[C_K_Dexter_Haven]

[Personal Note: I’m just back 18 hours in the hospital, for the second day, babysitting my father-in-law. I do not have time to read through the massive thread to see whether what tomndebb did was “correct.” I am therefore issuing rulings to get things quieted down.]

Thus;

Scissorjack: Please stop the junior modding. It is not your business to decide what’s a personal insult, nor who’s being a jerk. In fact, most of your comments are dead wrong: most of what tomndebb (for instance) is saying is directed at other posters’ posts/comments, not at the posters themselves. That’s NOT rules violation. If you think there’s a rules violation, please report it (little ! in red triangle in upper right corner of post) rather than take on the moderating role yourself.

tomndebb: It’s clearly a good idea, when closing a thread, to indicate why. In this particular case, I believe you were wrong not to be handing out warnings, however many. The decision to close the thread, I agree with. The thread closing was not because of the views being presented, but because of the train-wreck in terms of personal insults.

Everyone: Please. No personal insults in ATMB. Not directed at mods, not from mods directed at posters. Most of the what’s posted here is actually OK. The few bits that are probably technically over the line, I apologize, I do not have time to go through and sort out: they’re on all sides, however. Calling someone’s post a “rant” (for example) is not a comment about the person, but about what they’re saying and how they’re saying it.

[SiXSwordS]

@intention

That’s why I think there’s a bit more than just coincidence in tomndebb closing the recent thread when he did, and why he should recuse himself when the topic is Islam.

I don’t think you’ve made your case and I think it is ridiculous to imply that the duties of a Moderator should in any way be compared to a judge’s responsibilty or any other responsibilty wherein one should recuse oneself for having conflicting interests.

You have not made your case to this lurker although I should also note that I’m not really a lurker anymore since I’ve now posted.

[intention]

@C_K_Dexter_Haven

[Personal Note: I’m just back 18 hours in the hospital, for the second day, babysitting my father-in-law. I do not have time to read through the massive thread to see whether what tomndebb did was “correct.” I am therefore issuing rulings to get things quieted down.]

Thus;

Scissorjack: Please stop the junior modding. It is not your business to decide what’s a personal insult, nor who’s being a jerk. In fact, most of your comments are dead wrong: most of what tomndebb (for instance) is saying is directed at other posters’ posts/comments, not at the posters themselves. That’s NOT rules violation. If you think there’s a rules violation, please report it (little ! in red triangle in upper right corner of post) rather than take on the moderating role yourself.

tomndebb: It’s clearly a good idea, when closing a thread, to indicate why. In this particular case, I believe you were wrong not to be handing out warnings, however many. The decision to close the thread, I agree with. The thread closing was not because of the views being presented, but because of the train-wreck in terms of personal insults.

Everyone: Please. No personal insults in ATMB. Not directed at mods, not from mods directed at posters. Most of the what’s posted here is actually OK. The few bits that are probably technically over the line, I apologize, I do not have time to go through and sort out: they’re on all sides, however. Calling someone’s post a “rant” (for example) is not a comment about the person, but about what they’re saying and how they’re saying it.

C K Dexter Haven, I hope your father-in-law comes through well, props to you for the 18 hour days.

I did not mean that “rant” was over the line. I’m just saying that tomndebb has issues with me and in particular my point of view regarding Islam that are affecting his ability to fairly and equitably moderate threads where both are involved.

[Xploder]

@C_K_Dexter_Haven

…snipScissorjack: Please stop the junior modding. It is not your business to decide what’s a personal insult, nor who’s being a jerk. In fact, most of your comments are dead wrong: most of what tomndebb (for instance) is saying is directed at other posters’ posts/comments, not at the posters themselves. That’s NOT rules violation. If you think there’s a rules violation, please report it (little ! in red triangle in upper right corner of post) rather than take on the moderating role yourself…snip

What? You can’t tell me that you’ve never heard of satire. Be truthful, what Scissorjack did was dead on parody of what the majority of moderators do here.

[Scissorjack]

@Xploder

What? You can’t tell me that you’ve never heard of satire. Be truthful, what Scissorjack did was dead on parody of what the majority of moderators do here.

Look, Xploder, as moderators we all make decisions as individuals here, and sometimes, especially over weekends when communication is slow, it does take a while to reach a consensus. All I can say is that the matter is under discussion, and has been referred higher up for a decision. And quite frankly, I’m sick of this constant sniping and bickering over moderator actions: if we don’t leap to respond instantly we’re guilty of ignoring posters; if we do respond, we’re guilty of circling the wagons.

[elucidator]

@intention

…I’m just saying that tomndebb has issues with me and in particular my point of view regarding Islam that are affecting his ability to fairly and equitably moderate threads where both are involved.

While that isn’t a very good idea in theory, in practice it would be wholly preposterous.

A moderator should recuse themselves if either a) they don’t like you or b) don’t agree with you. Or must it be both? Gets kinda tricky. Why, there are even people who don’t like me! No, really! So, then, I would be within my rights to demand they recuse themselves from any thread I grace with my views?

And if they don’t? If you bring your accusation of bias, and the moderator says “Nope, unh-uh, totally love intention, could just eat him all up, and think his views are the epitome of brilliance and clarity…” Whose word do we take?

Do we keep a list of moderators who are barred from moderating threads that you post to, and a separate list for me, and another for Doggyknees, and another for…

Does a moderator moderate a thread until you show up, and then has to stop? Or perhaps if a thread is in progress and moderated by someone on your list, then you cannot post?

Does this dispensation apply more or less generally, or only to posters of surpassing value and intelligence, such as yourself?

Here’s my plan: let us make moderators we more or less trust, and surrender to them the discretion to do their jobs, as they see fit by their own lights. And if we think they really fucked up, we bitch!

Simple. Effective. Practical.

[Xploder]

@Scissorjack

Look, Xploder, as moderators we all make decisions as individuals here, and sometimes, especially over weekends when communication is slow, it does take a while to reach a consensus. All I can say is that the matter is under discussion, and has been referred higher up for a decision. And quite frankly, I’m sick of this constant sniping and bickering over moderator actions: if we don’t leap to respond instantly we’re guilty of ignoring posters; if we do respond, we’re guilty of circling the wagons.

That’s because, as history shows, all of you moderators are the same. First we can’t bitch about you in the Pit, we have to take it to ATMB, then we’re told that we can’t bitvh about you in ATMB. If we do, you circle the wagons, never answer the question and then close the thread with some sort of nonsense reasoning. If you even give a reason.

So there.

[chacoguy]

@Scissorjack

Look, Xploder, as moderators we all make decisions as individuals here, and sometimes, especially over weekends when communication is slow, it does take a while to reach a consensus. All I can say is that the matter is under discussion, and has been referred higher up for a decision. And quite frankly, I’m sick of this constant sniping and bickering over moderator actions: if we don’t leap to respond instantly we’re guilty of ignoring posters; if we do respond, we’re guilty of circling the wagons.

[Dallas_Jones]

@Xploder

What? You can’t tell me that you’ve never heard of satire. Be truthful, what Scissorjack did was dead on parody of what the majority of moderators do here.

Satire is too mild a word for an absolute, spot-on parody of mod smugness.

Hilarious and over due.

[fubbleskag]

Scissorjack is easily my favourite poster in this thread.

[Measure_for_Measure]

@Zoe

Measure for Measure, this is the appropriate forum for posting complaints about moderators. That is one thing that makes it different from GD. You may call intention’s posts “whining,” but if they are, then this is the place to whine.

Agreed. But it’s also a poster’s prerogative to label these whines as such, without undue repetition or piling on. I was characterizing the complaint as bogus. Credit where due: Zoe’s remarks were more thoughtful and constructive, as were elucidator’s.

[Zoe]

Originally posted by me:
But if you don’t know where you crossed the line in that thread, you really should familiarize yourself with the rules of the SDMB and of the individual forums that you participate in. If you still haven’t figured it out, ask a moderator that you do trust to explain where you crossed the line.

intention, my suggestion to you had two steps for solving the problem of finding out where you crossed the line. That was what you stated that you wanted to know so that you and others would not make the same mistakes again. The suggestions could not be more practical!:

1. Read the rules. This first step will probably answer your question, but if you still haven’t figured it out, you can

2. Ask another mod that you trust to explain where you crossed the line.

But in your response, you really want to know something else:

Zoe, thanks for the suggestion, but it seems totally impractical. I don’t know who crossed the line in the thread because tomndebb refuses to say. I don’t know if it was me, or someone else, or both. Why should I ask another moderator to explain what is in tomndebb’s mind? How does that work, how would another moderator know what tomndebb doesn’t like?..

(Note: They know the rules.)

…I’m just saying that tomndebb has issues with me and in particular my point of view regarding Islam that are affecting his ability to fairly and equitably moderate threads where both are involved.

I take you at your word. See suggestions #1 and #2 above. If neither you nor a moderator that you trust are unable to find any rule violations in the latter part of that thread, other Dopers might be willing to wait for a point you really haven’t made yet.

[Zoe]

Scissorjack, the problem you have with those of us who are elderly is becoming obvious. The references to sniping, bickering, and “circling the wagons” are so pointed! Cut us some slack!

[tomndebb]

@DSYoungEsq

First of all, as pointed out, this is an insulting statement. You should, in my opinion, avoid such statements.

We don’t exactly agree on this point, but even granting your views, I would note that intention specifically used the Pit to launch his accusations against me and even continued with personal insults after it was moved here and I figure a bit of asperity directly responding to his attacks is hardly out of line in my reply.

@DSYoungEsq

Second of all, it might have been a good idea to drop into the thread and establish that jerkish behavior was being engaged in before it reached the point that a sudden door slam was neccessary. Having reached the point it did, you might have tried to put the brakes on, and kept an eye on it before slamming the door and swallowing the key.

I’m a pretty mild mannered person here, and I’m certainly not in the camp of any of those engaged in the pissing contest in question, so this set of opinions might be worth more than a passing thought.

I did drop into that thread on a couple of occasions. However, the insults and accusations of lying were all posted in a relatively short period when I happened to be away from it.

The claim that no one can tell that insults were hurled or that no one can recognize an accusation of lying is an odd one for the proponents of my handing out Warnings to make. I have noted, however, that if there is a universal agreement that I should hand out those Warnings, I am willing to go back and make the time to do that.

As intention has made quite clear, however, the issue has never been one of whether I gave sufficient notice that the thread had lost control. He is simply upset that his rant against Islam happened to be one of the subthreads that was interrupted by the closing. He is so personally involved in that particular crusade that nothing will persuade him that I had any other motive than to silence him, so I see no particular reason to waste the effort attempting to persuade him.