# No one is going to hell. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 2, 2000, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845 "2000-08-02T14:46:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/21 "2000-08-02T21:45:23Z")
Several years ago, I had a dream in which God told me, “Everyone’s going to heaven.” Well, that settles it. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/22 "2000-08-02T21:52:14Z")
> [@](#): > > I’d rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints - Billy Joel Anybody wanna resurrect the Great God Debate? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2000, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/23 "2000-08-02T23:55:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asmodeus \* > \*\*So just what does the “and not of yourselves” mean? I interpret it to mean I don’t control it. The Lord has faith in us. I have it whether I like it or not. \*\* Look, God loves you. Really. But those who are dead – or just waiting to die – do not have eternal life. There are those who are alive in Christ, however, because they keep his teachings and have done what they must do to have eternal life. Let the dead bury their dead – why must every book in the Bible be about us? Those who have eternal life need guidance also, and counciling them in humility is not a bad thing. It is lucky for them they have been saved and they know it. Now, some who have faith can perform miracles, but not all, and not all are given to performing the same miracles. Not all can convert others even. So, members of the Church should not be bragging because it may seem they have greater faith – God made people capable of different things though they should strive to do good anyway. And now, the official version: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, out of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us sit with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God– 9 not because of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. ---
**Author:** ![Asmodeus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@Asmodeus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asmodeus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/24 "2000-08-03T00:18:13Z")
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God– Just whose doing is it then? It’s not mine. It clearly states that. It’s God’d doing. It seems to say to me…you didn’t do it, whatever your works were, it is a **gift** of God. Is there another way to interpret it? ---
**Author:** ![Ted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ted)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/25 "2000-08-03T00:55:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asmodeus \* > \*\*8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of > God– > Just whose doing is it then? It’s not mine. It clearly states that. It’s God’d doing. It seems to say to me…you didn’t do it, whatever your works were, it is a **gift** of God. Is there another way to interpret it? \*\* There was once a father who had two sons. To each son he made the gift of a vineyard and both sons were well pleased. The first son took well care of his vineyard. Keeping it well weeded, removing the pests that came, and making sure the land was well tilled. The second son thought upon his good fortune at the gift and sat back idly waiting for the rewards to come. When harvest time came, the first son collected a plentiful bounty. But the second son, who never once set foot into his vineyard received no fruit at all. “Father!” The second son cried, “Please grant me another gift of land so I might have a bountiful harvest like my brother!” “My son,” the father replied, “I would give you all the land I have, for I love you, but would you gain anything of it?” At hearing this the son hung his head, and hid his face in shame, knowing that one gains nothing if one does not use what they are given. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/26 "2000-08-03T01:13:50Z")
Ted wrote: > [@](#): > > At hearing this the son hung his head, and hid his face in shame, knowing that one gains nothing if one does not use what they are given. … such as the ability to reason, for example. Or are you saying that everybody goes to heaven, but for those who don’t make good use of it, heaven is really really boring? ---
**Author:** ![Ted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ted)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/27 "2000-08-03T01:25:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*Ted wrote: > > > [@](#): > > > > At hearing this the son hung his head, and hid his face in shame, knowing that one gains nothing if one does not use what they are given. > > … such as the ability to reason, for example. > > Or are you saying that everybody goes to heaven, but for those who don’t make good use of it, heaven is really really boring? \*\* =] I’m saying that “gift” can mean a lot of things. I didnt’ say a thing about heaven. Only what you do with what you’re given. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/28 "2000-08-03T14:34:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ted \* > \*\*The first son took well care of his vineyard. Keeping it well weeded, removing the pests that came, and making sure the land was well tilled. > The second son thought upon his good fortune at the gift and sat back idly waiting for the rewards to come. > > When harvest time came, the first son collected a plentiful bounty. But the second son, who never once set foot into his vineyard received no fruit at all. > > “Father!” The second son cried, “Please grant me another gift of land so I might have a bountiful harvest like my brother!” > “My son,” the father replied, “I would give you all the land I have, for I love you, but would you gain anything of it?” > > At hearing this the son hung his head, and hid his face in shame, knowing that one gains nothing if one does not use what they are given. \*\* Ted, this isn’t in the Bible, is it? ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/29 "2000-08-03T14:41:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Asmodeus \* > \*\*Just whose doing is it then? It’s not mine. It clearly states that. It’s God’d doing. It seems to say to me…you didn’t do it, whatever your works were, it is a **gift** of God. Is there another way to interpret it? \*\* “Aren’t you lucky you were able to hear the teachings of Christ and recieve them and thus gain eternal life, unlike those others I spoke about two sentences ago?” Grace = lucky. saved = eternal life. faith = following Christ’s teachings. ---
**Author:** ![Ted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ted)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/30 "2000-08-03T15:24:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > \*\* > Ted, this isn’t in the Bible, is it? \*\* Book of Mendacities Chapter 5 😉 If you want to go for Biblical though, try this from Matthew(NIV) > [@](#): > > 25:14 "Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. > 25:15 To one he gave five talents [110] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. > 25:16 The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. > 25:17 So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. > 25:18 But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money. > 25:19 "After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. > 25:20 The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. `Master,' he said, `you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’ > 25:21 "His master replied, `Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!' 25:22 "The man with the two talents also came. `Master,’ he said, `you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.' 25:23 "His master replied, `Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ > 25:24 "Then the man who had received the one talent came. `Master,' he said, `I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. > 25:25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ > 25:26 "His master replied, `You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 25:27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. 25:28 "`Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. > 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. > 25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ Personaly I think my own little on the fly parabel is a bit more feel good, but they both hold the similar idea that if you don’t use the “gift” you’re given, you’re screwed. ---
**Author:** ![jmullaney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@jmullaney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmullaney)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/31 "2000-08-03T21:51:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ted \* > Book of Mendacities Chapter 5 Book of Lies. LOL. That took me a minute. > [@](#): > > Personaly I think my own little on the fly parabel is a bit more feel good, but they both hold the similar idea that if you don’t use the “gift” you’re given, you’re screwed. True, but usually the “master and servant” parables explain how the children of darkness do things as an illustration of how the children of light should do things, whereas the “father and son(s)” parables are of a different ilk, which I guess is the relationship between God and his followers. Please refrain from cross-pollenating these in your mind. You would not have the master saying to the servant, “I love you and would gladly have given you a hundred talents” for example – the “children of darkness” don’t work like that. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/32 "2000-08-03T22:21:57Z")
Just a quickie: > [@](#): > > I didnt’ say a thing about heaven. > Only what you do with what you’re given. (From Ted’s post above) If that is not a quote from a song already, somebody ought to write a song that includes it! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ted](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ted)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845/33 "2000-08-03T23:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jmullaney \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Ted \* > > > > Personaly I think my own little on the fly parabel is a bit more feel good, but they both hold the similar idea that if you don’t use the “gift” you’re given, you’re screwed. > > True, but usually the “master and servant” parables explain how the children of darkness do things as an illustration of how the children of light should do things, whereas the “father and son(s)” parables are of a different ilk, which I guess is the relationship between God and his followers. Please refrain from cross-pollenating these in your mind. You would not have the master saying to the servant, “I love you and would gladly have given you a hundred talents” for example – the “children of darkness” don’t work like that. \*\* Oh, no. I totatly dissagree, (of course that’s what debates are about, aren’t they? =) at least if you mean that the “master” and the “father” aren’t both meant to represent God and “servant” and “son” aren’t each meant to represent his followers. (If you mean only that the master/servant is generaly meant to show what happens to bad people wheras the father/son is meant to show God’s love then I accede your point. [though, at the moment I can only think of one such father/son parabel though.] ) The whole of Matthew 25 seems to be refering explcity about God and the Kingdom of Heaven, and what it means to not get in: > [@](#): > > Matthew 25 25:1 "At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. > 25:2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise. > 25:3 The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. > 25:4 The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. > 25:5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. > 25:6 "At midnight the cry rang out: `Here's the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!' 25:7 "Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. 25:8 The foolish ones said to the wise, `Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’ > 25:9 "`No,' they replied, `there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’ > 25:10 "But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. > 25:11 "Later the others also came. `Sir! Sir!' they said. `Open the door for us!’ > 25:12 "But he replied, `I tell you the truth, I don't know you.' 25:13 "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. 25:14 "Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. 25:15 To one he gave five talents [110] of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. 25:16 The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. 25:17 So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. 25:18 But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money. 25:19 "After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. 25:20 The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. `Master,’ he said, `you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.' 25:21 "His master replied, `Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ > 25:22 "The man with the two talents also came. `Master,' he said, `you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.’ > 25:23 "His master replied, `Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!' 25:24 "Then the man who had received the one talent came. `Master,’ he said, `I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. 25:25 So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.' 25:26 "His master replied, `You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? > 25:27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. > 25:28 "`Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. 25:29 For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 25:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 25:33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 25:34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, `Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. > 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, > 25:36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ > 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 25:38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 25:39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?' 25:40 "The King will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ > 25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, `Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 25:42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' 25:44 "They also will answer, `Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ > 25:45 "He will reply, `I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ > 25:46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-is-going-to-hell/27845.md?page=1)