# No-one pitted the fuckers burning London down yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998 "2011-08-08T21:56:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Staggerlee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/staggerlee/32/3134_2.png) [@Staggerlee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Staggerlee)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/281 "2011-08-11T14:28:09Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I don’t think there is anything inherently sacred about laws or rules. Hey everybody! Post-riot party at Judith’s house! Tell everyone on Facebook! ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/282 "2011-08-11T14:41:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I have no idea of the voting rate of the “youth” of Britain, perhaps you could provide some actual numbers? [Page 27](http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.uk%2Fcommons%2Flib%2Fresearch%2Frp2003%2Frp03-059.pdf&ei=K-lDToyROY21hAeJqomlCQ&usg=AFQjCNFLVZ0UZk7bgxEIqvIcdK3k1RzzhQ). Those 35 and under vote at a substantially reduced rate than those over 55. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Likewise, I haven’t a clue how many write to their “MP’s”. In fact, I’m not even entirely sure was an “MP” is beyond some sort of elected official as I see the acronym frequently but so far as I can recall never actually written out. “Umm”, “here” [“lmgtfy”](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mp). :rolleyes: > [@Broomstick](#): > > If they been voting (the ones who vote) against budget cuts and austerity measures they’ve been losing for years even when participating as they’re supposed to - that’s what I mean, democracy doesn’t always get people what they want. Do you actually have a clue what you’re talking about? The austerity measures in the UK have not been around for years. In fact, the overwhelming majority of them have yet to kick in. We’ve got a Conservative Coalition that has implemented them, the majority of which will begin to kick in either next year or the year after. This coming off the back of 13 years of Labour domination where they spent the UK’s money like drunken sailors at the height of a boom. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/283 "2011-08-11T14:55:33Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > This coming off the back of 13 years of Labour domination where they spent the UK’s money like drunken sailors at the height of a boom. Let’s not forget [selling off](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/gold/5296526/Gold-Does-Gordon-Browns-regret-selling-half-of-Britains-gold-reserves-10-years-ago.html) almost 60% of our gold reserves at $276/oz. (Yesterday’s closing spot price, $1795.40 :smack: ) By my reckoning that’s cost us somewhere north of $20 billion. Good going, Gord! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/284 "2011-08-11T14:57:02Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > [Page 27](http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CCMQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.parliament.uk%2Fcommons%2Flib%2Fresearch%2Frp2003%2Frp03-059.pdf&ei=K-lDToyROY21hAeJqomlCQ&usg=AFQjCNFLVZ0UZk7bgxEIqvIcdK3k1RzzhQ). Those 35 and under vote at a substantially reduced rate than those over 55. I find that amusing, in that your youth, who you say are not participating sufficiently, actually vote at a higher rate than the general US population. Indeed, your youth vote at a higher rate that US 40 year old voters. By US standards your youth are _extremely_ eager voters. The only group in the US exceeding the voting rate of UK youth ser senior citizens, and that not by much. So I have to question if they are really so very disconnected as you claim. It seems more than half actually are participating in the election process. > [@](#): > > “Umm”, “here” [“lmgtfy”](http://lmgtfy.com/?q=mp). :rolleyes: Oddly enough, when I googled "MP’ without your assistance I had a completely different list come up. Perhaps it was some sort of effect of our different locations. But, really - is it that agonizing that I ask someone from the UK about how their government works, or the use of an acronym? Really? > [@](#): > > Do you actually have a clue what you’re talking about? The austerity measures in the UK have not been around for years. In fact, the overwhelming majority of them have yet to kick in. We’ve got a Conservative Coalition that has implemented them, the majority of which will begin to kick in either next year or the year after. This coming off the back of 13 years of Labour domination where they spent the UK’s money like drunken sailors at the height of a boom. Funny - one the one hand I hear the UK has been cutting back on social programs. On the other I hear they’ve been spending “like drunken sailors”. Which is it? Or could it be that the people being affected by the upcoming cuts are actually paying attention and protesting cuts they think will have bad effects on them? I don’t know, that’s why I ask. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/285 "2011-08-11T15:11:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Funny - one the one hand I hear the UK has been cutting back on social programs. On the other I hear they’ve been spending “like drunken sailors”. Which is it? Or could it be that the people being affected by the upcoming cuts are actually paying attention and protesting cuts they think will have bad effects on them? I don’t know, that’s why I ask. Labour were the spendthrifts - they apparently thought they had found a brave new economic model whereby the UK doesn’t have to produce anything useful, it can simply rely on shuffling other people’s money around in the City of London, while the rest of the UK pays for an expensive consumer lifestyle on the back of unsustainable house-price inflation (because house prices will never go down!). The coalition, who have been in power since May 2010, are, to give them some credit, at least making some attempt to fill the resulting hole in our finances. However, rather than cancelling pointless wars and cutting back on foreign aid, they are cutting just about everything else. (While still bending over backwards to stop anyone that mortgaged themselves up to the hilt in the so-called boom years from suffering the consequences, by keeping interest rates artificially low and further destroying what little is left of our economy. But I digress…) As for rioters having the intellect to understand this and act on it, I refer you to [these two](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424) Mensa candidates. “It’s a right laugh… oh, er yeah but it’s the government’s fault though! The … Conservatives or whoever… er… free wine!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/286 "2011-08-11T15:19:04Z")
Elections are not democracy. ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/287 "2011-08-11T16:29:12Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Guess all those better off folks shouldn’t have voted for cutting the police force, right? Funnily enough, the Conservatives didn’t boast about that in their election campaign. And those police cuts, which are now almost certainly going to be reversed, haven’t actually taken effect yet. So I’m not sure why you think they’re such a big hairy deal. > [@Broomstick](#): > > So… the state is cutting the benefits these people live on, their educational opportunities, the facilities that gave them something to do… and now you want to house each and every one for a decade or two? The benefits and educational facilities are still there for those who need them. And the facilities which gave them something to do were (a) almost always universally shit, and (b) utterly ignored by the people who are actually the problem, i.e. the perpetually and proudly clueless chav scum who think that world owes them a fucking living. The problem with these people _isn’t_ that they’re not getting enough free shit. The problem is that _they’re not scared of anyone._ Not their parents, not their teachers, and not the law. So no-one’s been able (or bothered) to teach them the obvious causal relationship between work on the one hand, and reward on the other. > [@Broomstick](#): > > If they’re miserable it may be because they are hopeless. > Yes, they are lawless > No, they’re not scum, they’re human beings. No, actually, they’re scum. You can tell because they’re smashing up shops, robbing the wounded, and throwing rocks at the police, all behaviours which are traditionally deemed “Scummy”. Don’t believe me? Try talking to them. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Funny thing, though - the UK spent a couple centuries exporting their troublemakers, their “scum”, first to North America, then to Australia… yet the nation, instead of being rid of them, always winds up generating more. Perhaps you should ask yourselves why there is a persistent underclass in your cities despite the efforts to eliminate them. Can you name a single community on earth that _doesn’t_ have a persistent underclass? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/288 "2011-08-11T16:46:34Z")
> [@George\_Kaplin](#): > > And the facilities which gave them something to do were (a) almost always universally shit, and (b) utterly ignored by the people who are actually the problem, i.e. the perpetually and proudly clueless chav scum who think that world owes them a fucking living. The problem with these people _isn’t_ that they’re not getting enough free shit. The problem is that _they’re not scared of anyone._ Not their parents, not their teachers, and not the law. So no-one’s been able (or bothered) to teach them the obvious causal relationship between work on the one hand, and reward on the other. Precisely. Does anyone really think that the sort of teenager whose interests consist of petty theft, selling drugs and inter-gang violence - and looting if there’s enough of a crowd doing it - is going to be interested in going to some happy-clappy youth club or drop-in centre? I’m quite sure that any who participated in such drippy activities would be swiftly disowned by their peers. For swathes of the country, learning isn’t cool; joining in isn’t cool. Being an outsider is cool, and carries greater rewards. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/289 "2011-08-11T16:47:03Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Labour were the spendthrifts - they apparently thought they had found a brave new economic model whereby the UK doesn’t have to produce anything useful, it can simply rely on shuffling other people’s money around in the City of London, while the rest of the UK pays for an expensive consumer lifestyle on the back of unsustainable house-price inflation (because house prices will never go down!). That predates the Blair government, to be fair. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/290 "2011-08-11T16:48:43Z")
> [@George\_Kaplin](#): > > No, actually, they’re scum. You can tell because they’re smashing up shops, robbing the wounded, and throwing rocks at the police, all behaviours which are traditionally deemed “Scummy”. - 1 Billion. I love that someone is actually trying to defend them against the badge of “scum”. Just shows how far up one’s head someone people’s asses are. Maybe their just, let’s see…“misinderstood”. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/291 "2011-08-11T17:36:17Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Thanks for asking. Greece is a basket case. (Ireland had terrific numbers a couple of years ago though, but screwed the pooch when they bailed out their banks). > > You run responsible economic policies during good times, so that you can save for emergencies. But during emergencies _don’t put a padlock on the fire extinguisher_. That’s silly, right? If there’s a fire, you put it out: you don’t worry about saving your equipment for an emergency. > > So how do we tell what Britain’s condition is? We know that if they cut spending, people will be thrown out of work and tax revenues will decline. That indeed is what has happened. But we also know that British investors thirst for safe assets. The proper response them _is to give them those safe assets_: sell them British gilts and use the proceeds to invest in the nation’s future. Ten year government bonds in the UK are just under 3%: in a country with an inflation rate topping 4% that is very low, dirt cheap even. The market’s signal is unambiguous: they are not worried about the country’s solvency, but they are worried (correctly) about their future growth. > > Austerity is for dummies: Latvia is a basket case while Iceland’s recession has been relatively mild. And Britain is suffering the consequences of bad macroeconomic policy. Well done. it sounds so simple when you put it like that, unfortunately it seems like every country now has to be treated as a special case. That isn’t too helpful in predicting how and when and why a particular country is going to go tits up. How, when so many brilliant people are working on financial policy, do we end up with failures at all? Why, when your analysis above is so simple and straightforward do we end up with so many conflicting predictions from those same brilliant minds? Is it perhaps because it is far more complicated that you think? that there are so many variable and elements of chaotic behaviour that “success” is not easily predictable? When the single wise man among thousands pontificates on the success of his particular economic predictions it is the economics equivalent of the 1 in 14 million lottery winner telling us after the fact why his system worked. There is a reason why economics degrees are a BA rather than a BSc ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/292 "2011-08-11T17:44:00Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > Out of interst, what have you “heard from the rioters” > . self interest. That is about it. They want a telly, they want a new pair of trainers, they want an opportunity to throw a brick, a bottle or a Molotov cocktail and have a good laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/293 "2011-08-11T17:48:49Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Thanks for asking. Greece is a basket case. (Ireland had terrific numbers a couple of years ago though, but screwed the pooch when they bailed out their banks). > > You run responsible economic policies during good times, so that you can save for emergencies. But during emergencies _don’t put a padlock on the fire extinguisher_. That’s silly, right? If there’s a fire, you put it out: you don’t worry about saving your equipment for an emergency. > > So how do we tell what Britain’s condition is? We know that if they cut spending, people will be thrown out of work and tax revenues will decline. That indeed is what has happened. But we also know that British investors thirst for safe assets. The proper response them _is to give them those safe assets_: sell them British gilts and use the proceeds to invest in the nation’s future. Ten year government bonds in the UK are just under 3%: in a country with an inflation rate topping 4% that is very low, dirt cheap even. The market’s signal is unambiguous: they are not worried about the country’s solvency, but they are worried (correctly) about their future growth. > > Austerity is for dummies: Latvia is a basket case while Iceland’s recession has been relatively mild. And Britain is suffering the consequences of bad macroeconomic policy. Every single major political party in the UK agreed that austerity measures were necessary. They just dispute how fast the measures should be implemented and how far they need to go. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/294 "2011-08-11T18:09:39Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > self interest. That is about it. > > They want a telly, they want a new pair of trainers, they want an opportunity to throw a brick, a bottle or a Molotov cocktail and have a good laugh. You should be ashamed to quote verbatim Mega City One’s Great Book of Law entry on “Juvies”. “5 years in the cubes. Titan for the arsonists” ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/295 "2011-08-11T18:14:42Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > You should be ashamed to quote verbatim Mega City One’s Great Book of Law entry on “Juvies”. > > “5 years in the cubes. Titan for the arsonists” eeek! that is lost on me. Regardless, what I said is true. Now as to _why_ they have such limited, materialistic and anti-social horizons is the real conversation to have. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/296 "2011-08-11T19:02:40Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > Says it all really. Fuck trying to understand something, let’s just view life as a fucking panto, 1 dimensional villains and all. Sure fucking does. Rarely are life’s issues black and white but this shit comes pretty damned close. I’m all for “understanding” so, enlighten me. What are the issues that justify destroying innocent peoples’ property and trashing one’s own city? What is being accomplished? News coverage? I’m not a Brit but I’ve certainly lived in cities where civil unrest turned into mayhem. Fucking senseless no matter what social issues you try to blame it on. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/297 "2011-08-11T19:53:33Z")
> [@WOOKINPANUB](#): > > What are the issues that justify destroying innocent peoples’ property and trashing one’s own city? People aren’t saying “justified.” Using that word shows you are missing completely what people are saying. It isn’t justified. But we should still seek to understand **why** it is happening, and, if at all possible, remove those causes. In order to stop it happening in the future. Putting the army on the streets won’t do that, it’ll just give a quick hard on to the “liberals” who blame everything on dole-scroungers and immigrants. What history shows us is that when people feel they have no stake in society, when they feel their leaders have betrayed them, when they feel that [authority is crooked and corrupt and doing things as bad as anything they are accused of](http://nathanieltapley.com/2011/08/10/an-open-letter-to-david-camerons-parents/), then things like this happen. The expenses scandal, the bail out of the financial sector, the money grabbing nature of British politics **don’t** justify what happened. But they, and the austerity, and the general feeling of hopelessness go a way towards helping us understand it. People do self destructive things when they see no future. And many more of the posters in this thread than would be willing to admit it would join the mob if the mentality was right. That’s how mobs work. It’s no surprise though that this behavior, massively destructive to community and society as it is, is occurring under the watch of the Tories (and their LibDem lackies). After all, from Thatcher on they have pissed on the concept of community and society, only mentioning it when they feel they have gone too far and need to appear fuzzy to garner a few more votes, or to contrast their perfect society with the dangerous new British society with black and brown faces in it. As you sow, Thatcher you witch, so you will reap. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/298 "2011-08-11T20:15:01Z")
> [@villa](#): > > People aren’t saying “justified.” Using that word shows you are missing completely what people are saying. > > It isn’t justified. But we should still seek to understand **why** it is happening, and, if at all possible, remove those causes. In order to stop it happening in the future. Putting the army on the streets won’t do that, it’ll just give a quick hard on to the “liberals” who blame everything on dole-scroungers and immigrants. > > What history shows us is that when people feel they have no stake in society, when they feel their leaders have betrayed them, when they feel that [authority is crooked and corrupt and doing things as bad as anything they are accused of](http://nathanieltapley.com/2011/08/10/an-open-letter-to-david-camerons-parents/), then things like this happen. > > The expenses scandal, the bail out of the financial sector, the money grabbing nature of British politics **don’t** justify what happened. But they, and the austerity, and the general feeling of hopelessness go a way towards helping us understand it. > > People do self destructive things when they see no future. And many more of the posters in this thread than would be willing to admit it would join the mob if the mentality was right. That’s how mobs work. > > It’s no surprise though that this behavior, massively destructive to community and society as it is, is occurring under the watch of the Tories (and their LibDem lackies). After all, from Thatcher on they have pissed on the concept of community and society, only mentioning it when they feel they have gone too far and need to appear fuzzy to garner a few more votes, or to contrast their perfect society with the dangerous new British society with black and brown faces in it. As you sow, Thatcher you witch, so you will reap. As far as understanding rioting goes - oddly enough, Vancouver had terrible rioting this year, following the Stanley Cup game, which was blamed by the mayor on “thugs, criminals and anarchists” - yet those caught rioting did not fit that profile at all: nor where they people with ‘no hope, no future’. Rather, they were often people previoulsy unknown to the police, people who had jobs, etc. [They were often caught because they proudly posted pics of themselves rioting!] > **[2011 Vancouver Stanley Cup riot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_riot_2011)** > > On the evening of June 15, 2011 in the downtown core of Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada, a riot broke out almost immediately after the conclusion of the Boston Bruins' victory over the Vancouver Canucks in game seven of the Finals of the National Hockey League to win the Stanley Cup. > Nearly 150 people were injured during the incident, including four by stabbing. On the night of the riot, nearly 100 arrests were made by the Vancouver police, including 85 for breach of peace, 8 for public ... BC isn’t notably “Thatcheresque” in its government and it does not appear that the rioting was a protest against lack of a future. Nor, would I suggest, are the people of Vancouver notably more prone to evil than the people of London. This to my mind suggests that what creates rioting isn’t necessarily an underlying class warfare, but rather the observed opportunity to riot without consequence. [On an ironic note: the UK’s Guardian carried an opinion piece stating “The pointless riots that followed the Canucks’ defeat make a mockery of Vancouver’s claims to be a world class city.”] [http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Chaos+attracts+international+attention+leaves+city+with+black/4962422/story.html#ixzz1UklMeUPJ](http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Chaos+attracts+international+attention+leaves+city+with+black/4962422/story.html#ixzz1UklMeUPJ) ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/299 "2011-08-11T20:24:44Z")
> [@villa](#): > > It’s no surprise though that this behavior, massively destructive to community and society as it is, is occurring under the watch of the Tories (and their LibDem lackies). After all, from Thatcher on they have pissed on the concept of community and society, only mentioning it when they feel they have gone too far and need to appear fuzzy to garner a few more votes, or to contrast their perfect society with the dangerous new British society with black and brown faces in it. As you sow, Thatcher you witch, so you will reap. This is just such lazy thinking. Elsewhere in your post you say we should try to understand “why?” in order to prevent this happening in the future. I agree, but then you fail to follow this through and choose the cowardly political partisan path of neatly piling all the blame all onto the Tories, pathetic. 13 years of opportunity squandered and yet you knee-jerk your way right back to 1980. Pick a hate figure and heap the blame on them. Saves you turning your gaze elsewhere. Saves you having to consider all the contributing factors. Handy to blame those you already hate and distrust isn’t it? It is far harder to take when some of the blame lies closer to home. Your post is a handy example to all of why we are where we are. Why the political dialogue is a study in the art of blame deflection rather than critical self-assesment. “shit! it can’t have been _us_, we are the good guys, it must have been _them_! they are the bad guys” You disregard the fact that the last 13 year of Labour has seen [worse](http://www2.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news/archives/2005/LSE_SuttonTrust_report.aspx)[social mobility](http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/04/social-mobility-highest-levels) than under the Tories of 1980-97 sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. The Tories failed to tackle this, New Labour failed to tackle this. Your political affiliation does you no favours here and this problem will not be solved while politicians dance to the tunes that such as you want to hear. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/300 "2011-08-11T20:46:18Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > You disregard the fact that the last 13 year of Labour has seen [worse](http://www2.lse.ac.uk/newsAndMedia/news/archives/2005/LSE_SuttonTrust_report.aspx)[social mobility](http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/04/social-mobility-highest-levels) than under the Tories of 1980-97 > sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. > > The Tories failed to tackle this, New Labour failed to tackle this. Your political affiliation does you no favours here and this problem will not be solved while politicians dance to the tunes that such as you want to hear. My opinion of NuLabour (double plus ungood) isn’t significantly better than my opinions of the Tories. And I don’t view Blair much more charitably than the witch. I was never a member of NuLabour. When I left the party, Clause IV was still proudly on my membership card. Why I focus on the witch is because of her willful destruction of much that was great about British society for ideological reasons. If you want to say NuLabour didn’t cure the evils she inflicted, and even might have worsened some, I am not going to fight you over that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998.md?page=16)