# No-one pitted the fuckers burning London down yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998 "2011-08-08T21:56:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/101 "2011-08-09T11:38:50Z")
> [@villa](#): > > You’re missing the point of the disillusionment. The idea is that it cannot be changed. That marching, shouting, yelling, screaming etc won’t do anything, that protest gets co-opted. > > I don’t hold to that view, but to deny it is there is burying one’s head in the sand. As is denying there is historically a very good reason it is there. > > There’s a place for direct action, and always has been in the UK. Sadly this seems to be misplaced direct action. Glad to hear you don’t personally hold to that view, and I’m not denying that they might hold to it, but it’s obviously wrong and if these people really feel that things cannot be changed, then I don’t know how we can teach them otherwise. Perhaps teaching kids about politics in schools? Show them the uprisings happening in other parts of the world and then tell them what they can do here in the UK that might make an actual difference? I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/102 "2011-08-09T11:38:55Z")
> [@Galanthus](#): > > Up thread there is a quote from one of the rioters saying that a few weeks befor they had organised a peacefull march of a couple of thousand and it wasn’t mentioned by the media at all. Is this true though? I doubt it. The English press report on every minutiae of London life. It’s probably horseshit. He probably means he wasn’t on the telly. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/103 "2011-08-09T11:41:48Z")
> [@Kal](#): > > Couple of years back, just one mugging would get a happy-slapping ratboy enough dosh to get some trainers, a week’s worth of weed, some cheap cider and still have cash spare for a happy meal. Now, they have to do three stabbings just to get enough for 20 Red Band and a bag of Wotsits.. I pasted this into the Google bar, thinking it was a paraphrased quote from A Clockwork Orange. But obviously not. So the only thing I can parse out of this is that it’s mostly written in English. I think. ---
**Author:** ![Bibliovore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Bibliovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bibliovore)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/104 "2011-08-09T11:47:57Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > When your house is on fire, you don’t argue, why its on fire, you put the fire out. The riots have to stop, the police (and if necessary the military) need to restore order first. THEN you can discuss the underlying causes all you want. > > On the birchings and hangings issue, I would not shed a tear if the bastards involved were birched and hanged; have it coming. I agree with the first part (we don’t need the military though), but not the second. I don’t want to live in a UK where birchings and hangings have become acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/105 "2011-08-09T11:55:49Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Quite often it is, or aided and abetted by the government. That was the distinction I was making. The most you can say of the UK, though, is that the help given to the poor is insufficient. I’m not sure I’d agree, and as someone who works for a few pence over minimum wage I have some perspective on the issue, but that’s a separate debate. To claim that the government here is actively making people poor is ridiculous. > [@SecondJudith](#): > > Income and wealth inequality sure is, and lack of access to education (thanks for raising those university fees!) and cutting jobs rather than growing them. Poverty is caused by government. Sorry to break it to you. There’s no lack of access to education - it’s completely free until the age of 18, and free at the point of access until at least the first degree. The loans taken out to pay the fees and living costs only have to be paid back when your income reaches a certain level, which means it functions like a progressive tax. Also, many universities, including Oxford and Cambridge, actively recruit from poorer areas, and have bursaries to help students who, even with the loans, would struggle to fund their studies. There’s also a great deal of help out there for unemployed people - I was unemployed for a few months last year, so I know what’s available. It’s not perfect - the fact that some of the practical help only triggers when you’ve been on the dole for 6 months seems odd to me, but it’s simply factually untrue to say that anyone is left to rot on the dole here. It may have been true in the 80s under Thatcher, but things have very much changed. To get slightly deeper into the poverty issue, it’s not caused by government. Poverty is the natural state of most of humanity (see for example Hobbes’ Leviathan - “And the life of man, solitary, poore, nasty, brutish, and short”.) What a government can, and should, do is work to ensure that people are helped out of this state, as that benefits everybody, not just those who are poorest. If you want to argue that the current government isn’t doing as much as it should to help, that’s fair enough, but it’s a different argument. Back on topic for the thread though, you know what will cause poverty? Burning down people’s houses, businesses, and cars. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/106 "2011-08-09T12:01:10Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I pasted this into the Google bar, thinking it was a paraphrased quote from A Clockwork Orange. But obviously not. > So the only thing I can parse out of this is that it’s mostly written in English. I think. It’s just British slang. A ratboy is a drug-addicted thieving juvenile delinquent (I think based on a comics character); dosh is money; trainers I think you call sneakers (the kind of shoes you’d wear to work out or play sports, some of which are branded and very expensive); weed is marijuana; cider is an often inexpensive alcoholic apple-flavoured drink; a Happy Meal is fast food from McDonald’s; Red Band are a brand of cigarettes; Wotsits are a mass-produced packaged snack food. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/107 "2011-08-09T12:07:10Z")
I think **SecondJudith’s** comments are revealing. It is attitudes like that which cause youth problems; an entitlement complex. Its not my duty to work hard to improve my lot; its my right, to get a university education, to get a Blu Ray player or a nice shirt. So just get it. Life sucks. You play the best with the hand you are given and work to improve yourself. Not act like a bloody lout. ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/108 "2011-08-09T12:12:54Z")
I like living in a society where education is considered a right. It makes better societies and better people, in my opinion. I like equality of opportunity, and I think it makes the world a better place. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/109 "2011-08-09T12:16:12Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I like living in a society where education is considered a right. It makes better societies and better people, in my opinion. I like equality of opportunity, and I think it makes the world a better place. Yes after all if you are a black, working class lad from Brixton no university will accept you, even if you can pay.:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/110 "2011-08-09T12:17:11Z")
I’m not even sure what that’s supposed to mean. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/111 "2011-08-09T12:25:25Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I’m not even sure what that’s supposed to mean. Unsurprising. You really have no idea how higher education works do you? Universities compete actively to get the best and brightest; and they are willing to offer generous financial aid for the same. So there has always been opportunity for the poor but bright to succeed. So unless you are suggesting that universities actively prevent lower class kids from entering, your statement is full of shit. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/112 "2011-08-09T12:27:10Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I think **SecondJudith’s** comments are revealing. It is attitudes like that which cause youth problems; an entitlement complex. Its not my duty to work hard to improve my lot; its my right, to get a university education, to get a Blu Ray player or a nice shirt. You assume that “working hard to improve your lot” actually works. In reality Britain has low social mobility compared to other Western countries (as does America). ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/113 "2011-08-09T12:31:39Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You really have no idea how higher education works do you? Universities compete actively to get the best and brightest; and they are willing to offer generous financial aid for the same. So there has always been opportunity for the poor but bright to succeed. > > So unless you are suggesting that universities actively prevent lower class kids from entering, your statement is full of shit. Do you think it is easier to get the grades in A levels for entry to higher education in Eton or a Brixton comprehensive? Do you think that programs which focus on a small percentage at the top of the academic pool really have any great societal effect when they ignore the overwhelming majority? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/114 "2011-08-09T12:39:14Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Do you think it is easier to get the grades in A levels for entry to higher education in Eton or a Brixton comprehensive? Eton, by a distance. I’ve no experience of Brixton, only of a small-town East Anglian comprehensive, but based on the general illiteracy, apathy, bad attitude and resistance to authority that I see on a daily basis, and on the reasonable assumption that small-town East Anglia is a paradise on earth compared to Brixton, I’d be amazed if the average school-leaver knew how to add, subtract, multiply, divide or form a coherent grammatical sentence, never mind get enough A levels to get into higher education. But the damage is done well before comprehensive, so far as I can see. The average Etonite is probably there with the intention of getting an education. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/115 "2011-08-09T12:47:04Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > You really have no idea how higher education works do you? Universities compete actively to get the best and brightest; and they are willing to offer generous financial aid for the same. So there has always been opportunity for the poor but bright to succeed. So people with average intelligence, like, fuck’em? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/116 "2011-08-09T12:48:15Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > The average Etonite is probably there with the intention of getting an education. Actually, the average Etonite is probably there because his parents had the intention of him getting an education (and the means to purchase said education). ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/117 "2011-08-09T12:50:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Not going to happen. These riots appear to be cropping up in a matter of minutes and they are over equally quickly. The mobile phone makes it easy to throw some rocks, steal a TV and disappear and set up another mob for later. They are rioting broadly, not deeply. (Does anyone see what I did there? :D) ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/118 "2011-08-09T12:56:39Z")
I hope the London police have their own social media department - that they’re reading the tweets, too. ---
**Author:** ![Hallucinex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ba9def/32.png) [@Hallucinex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hallucinex)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/119 "2011-08-09T12:58:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I hope the London police have their own social media department - that they’re reading the tweets, too. I saw there’s [@metpoliceuk](http://twitter.com/#!/metpoliceuk) ---
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/120 "2011-08-09T13:09:09Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Actually, the average Etonite is probably there because his parents had the intention of him getting an education (and the means to purchase said education). Yes, precisely. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998.md?page=7)