# No-one pitted the fuckers burning London down yet? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 8, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998 "2011-08-08T21:56:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SecondJudith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5ac83/32.png) [@SecondJudith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SecondJudith)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/141 "2011-08-09T15:13:27Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > If society ceases to have general law and order, what you get is the “haves” barracading themselves in with private security, and the “have nots” left to rot. It inevitably exacerbates the divide in society. Disclaimer: I don’t fully agree with the viewpoint I’m about to describe. From the rioters and looters’ perspectives, this is basically happening already. Income inequality is rising, as is wealth disparity, and with the cuts the coalition government has put in place they must feel like they’ve been left to rot. From their POV, what’s to be gained by playing the stacked deck? They’ll lose out the same way anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Kumquat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/4491bb/32.png) [@Gary\_Kumquat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Kumquat)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/142 "2011-08-09T15:38:11Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > The practical answer is that if those on the bottom simply steal shit and burn stuff down, they will most likely be the ones to suffer for it both individually and collectively - regardless of the rights and wrongs of the matter. If society ceases to have general law and order, what you get is the “haves” barracading themselves in with private security, and the “have nots” left to rot. It inevitably exacerbates the divide in society. So people should acknowledge the game is stacked, but play by the rules, for fear things could get worse? Personally, if I was in a shitty enough situation, I’d be prepared to take my chances on that bet. I’d certainly be prepared (for example) to join in a crowd looting goods that I’d never be able to afford under normal circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/143 "2011-08-09T15:39:51Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > And probably sold him the idea that getting an education is a good thing to do. You can get A-levels at the school I work at - but a lot of the kids I see aren’t interested in achieving even the minimum they can. Which to my mind suggests the problem isn’t a lack of support for the unemployed; it’s too much support. Children look around them and see people living the life of Riley on benefits, with perhaps a bit of petty crime on the side to provide an additional income. They don’t need qualifications, they’re never going to apply for a job because why should they? The state will look after them. And if they’re a bit short of cash and can’t quite afford a new games console or TV, well they can just chuck a rock through the window of the nearest electrical shop and the police will just stand and watch. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/144 "2011-08-09T15:57:05Z")
> [@Gary\_Kumquat](#): > > So people should acknowledge the game is stacked, but play by the rules, for fear things could get worse? > > Personally, if I was in a shitty enough situation, I’d be prepared to take my chances on that bet. I’d certainly be prepared (for example) to join in a crowd looting goods that I’d never be able to afford under normal circumstances. Sure. Just because the “deck is stacked” - meaning that the already-wealthy have a better shot than everyone else - doesn’t mean that your best shot isn’t to “play by the rules” - that is, attempt to achieve success through education, saving, hard work, etc., rather than looting and burning. The obvious problem with looting and burning is that it is somewhat self-limiting as a lifestyle choice. It relies on stuff being readily available and unguarded to be looted and burned. Since that stuff doesn’t grow on magic consumer goods trees … ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/145 "2011-08-09T16:11:54Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Which to my mind suggests the problem isn’t a lack of support for the unemployed; it’s too much support. Children look around them and see people living the life of Riley on benefits, with perhaps a bit of petty crime on the side to provide an additional income. This Public Service Announcement brought to you courtesy of the Daily Mail. ---
**Author:** ![humanafterall](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/humanafterall/32/19654_2.png) [@humanafterall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humanafterall)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/146 "2011-08-09T16:20:09Z")
Anarchy in the UK! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/147 "2011-08-09T16:23:37Z")
> [@villa](#): > > This Public Service Announcement brought to you courtesy of the Daily Mail. Since high-tailing it out of the UK, are you still able to get the Guardian? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/148 "2011-08-09T16:40:39Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Since high-tailing it out of the UK, are you still able to get the Guardian? I guess I could online. Tend to get my news from the World Service. I also am much more likely to read the Telegraph. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/149 "2011-08-09T16:49:02Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > When your house is on fire, you don’t argue, why its on fire, you put the fire out. The riots have to stop, the police (and if necessary the military) need to restore order first. THEN you can discuss the underlying causes all you want. Would you say that underlying causes were properly discussed after 1985? ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/150 "2011-08-09T16:49:05Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > But it does make a start on _explaining_ why it happened. Good post by Broomstick above. I don’t think it can be fully explained though. Listen to these two [drunk women](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424). Fucking idiots, completely divorced from reality. There are no easy answers. The right wingers will say benefits have given people an inflated sense of entitlement, while the left-wingers will say not enough has been done to fight poverty. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/151 "2011-08-09T16:51:36Z")
The truth is that benefits have given people in inflated sense of entitlement while the stratification of the economy has eroded their realistic alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/152 "2011-08-09T17:13:32Z")
I don’t know if the inner-city schools there are the same as some of the ones here (Canada), but when my friend student-taught at one, she was shocked to learn that university entrance courses are not even offered. I realize that attendance is a hard enough problem at the basic course level, but that is like giving up on the kids before they even start. I don’t agree with rioting and looting, but I also can’t imagine being so frustrated by a system that show you nothing but more and more bleakness with no way to escape. People have to have hope. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/153 "2011-08-09T17:29:55Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > I don’t know if the inner-city schools there are the same as some of the ones here (Canada), but when my friend student-taught at one, she was shocked to learn that university entrance courses are not even offered. That wouldn’t be an issue over here, the schools have to offer the standard qualifications, and that is all that is required to go to university. However, I don’t know how good the schools are in the area. Over-crowding and disruptive pupils can drag down educational standards, and make it harder to employ good teachers. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/154 "2011-08-09T17:55:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The truth is that benefits have given people in inflated sense of entitlement while the stratification of the economy has eroded their realistic alternatives. I agree mostly. I disagree that alternatives are not realistic; yes it has made their situation much harder but not impossible. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/155 "2011-08-09T18:27:18Z")
> [@villa](#): > > This Public Service Announcement brought to you courtesy of the Daily Mail. Don’t insult me, I wouldn’t buy that rag unless all other toilet tissue had been looted. I’m a fully paid-up liberal (yes I even read the Guardian) but the welfare state combined with an open immigration policy simply doesn’t work in its current incarnation. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/156 "2011-08-09T18:44:44Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > The average Etonite is probably there with the intention of getting an education. Partly, and it is a wonderful education. The other main aspect of being at Eton is the quite enormous social capital you acquire - the fees repaid a hundred or a million fold: > **[Social capital](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_capital)** > > Social capital is a concept used in sociology and economics to define networks of relationships which are productive towards advancing the goals of individuals and groups. > It involves the effective functioning of social groups through interpersonal relationships, a shared sense of identity, a shared understanding, shared norms, shared values, trust, cooperation, and reciprocity. Some have described it as a form of capital that produces public goods for a common purpose, although this does n Soc... ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/157 "2011-08-09T18:53:07Z")
Fwiw, very interesting to see the change in mood in south London today, lots and lots of people walking up to police and making sure they’re ok, an awful people saying that’s enough and it’s time to get out there and stop the kids. ---
**Author:** ![George\_Kaplin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3e96dc/32.png) [@George\_Kaplin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/George_Kaplin)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/158 "2011-08-09T19:04:29Z")
Fuck the London rioters. What, they don’t get enough free shit already? What a beautiful way to repay those whose hard work affords them the accommodation they possess, and the benefits, emergency services, and educational programs they have access to; beat them, rob them, burn down their shops and terrify them into self-imposed house arrest. They can all go get fucked. The only concrete observation one can make of the riots is that there are a lot of scumbags in this country who need a fucking good kicking. Fuck their deprivation. If these indolent pigs put one tenth of one percent of the effort into policing their own communities as they’re currently putting into thieving, terrorizing, and throwing petrol bombs at police then maybe, just _maybe_, there’d be a bit more potential for upward mobility. But no, they’d rather languish in their shithole council estates in a fog of weed smoke, throwing jewelled fists at anything that looks like an opportunity. They can all get fucked again I hope that tonight’s the night the police finally break out the tear gas and rubber bullets. I hope the ringleaders are arrested, convicted, paraded on national television, and are put to work as a chain gang clearing the debris while dressed in humiliating and emasculating outfits, before being dragged off to prison to, once again, get fucked. Interpret that how you will. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/159 "2011-08-09T19:06:09Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Which to my mind suggests the problem isn’t a lack of support for the unemployed; it’s too much support. Children look around them and see people living the life of Riley on benefits, with perhaps a bit of petty crime on the side to provide an additional income. Yeah, and no doubt they drive up in a Cadillac or the British equivalent to pick up their check. :rolleyes: I don’t believe for a moment that they are “living life of Riley”. And I find it _really_ implausible that making the poor poorer would make them less desperate and angry. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998/160 "2011-08-09T19:24:34Z")
LOL. Some people are so plain thick it’s difficult to imagine how they get through life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-pitted-the-fuckers-burning-london-down-yet/591998.md?page=9)