# No One Wants You To Know How Bad Fukushima Might Still Be **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 20, 2014, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034 "2014-08-20T20:18:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/41 "2014-08-24T04:27:54Z")
There is a huge Fukishima exclusion zone that is permanent for all practical purposes. I don’t know of any permanent fossil fuel disaster exclusion zone anywhere near that size. The Gulf of Mexico DeepWater Horizon exclusion zone was temporary and larger, but that was for public relations purposes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/42 "2014-08-24T04:32:11Z")
If we take the Fukishima disaster, discount the small radioactive increases around the globe as a result, assume that we don’t know the extent of the local damage because we don’t and can’t evaluate what that means in order to add it into our assessment, assume that the cores have stopped melting down and none of the other cores are in danger, assume that the people displaced are not white English speakers, then wouldn’t we all have to agree it isn’t a problem at all. Because that is what you all have done. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/43 "2014-08-24T04:48:27Z")
Bullshit. At no point have any of us ever assumed that the cores have stopped melting down or that the other cores aren’t in danger. We know that the problem is serious, and that it requires action sooner rather than later. All I’m taking **FXMastermind** to task for is exaggerating the problem beyond any realistic assessment. He has consistently pushed the panic button, and that’s every bit as unrealistic as the (false) charges you make in your post. There is a middle ground of concern here. You incorrectly accuse us of underestimating it, and this is not a valid rebuttal to my accusation of him for overestimating it. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/44 "2014-08-24T05:19:47Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Bullshit. At no point have any of us ever assumed that the cores have stopped melting down or that the other cores aren’t in danger. > > We know that the problem is serious, and that it requires action sooner rather than later. > > All I’m taking **FXMastermind** to task for is exaggerating the problem beyond any realistic assessment. He has consistently pushed the panic button, and that’s every bit as unrealistic as the (false) charges you make in your post. > > There is a middle ground of concern here. You incorrectly accuse us of underestimating it, and this is not a valid rebuttal to my accusation of him for overestimating it. FX was and is right, and you are mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/45 "2014-08-24T05:23:11Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > FX was and is right, and you are mistaken. Well now I’m convinced. Great argument. The simple fact is that compared to other methods of power generation nuclear is safer. Sure some people will dies as a result of Fukushima. It’s a drop in the bucket compared to the people who die from the mining and processing of coal for power. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/46 "2014-08-24T06:14:48Z")
If nuclear power is so wonderful, where are all the new plants in the US? Are those darn hippies stopping progress again? Or is it perhaps the enormous liability and cost of installing it? There will never be another nuclear power plant built in the US because its proponents can’t muster the money and political clout that windfarms manage every day. The cost of decommissioning a plant is so overwhelming that it is never even budgeted publicly. Nuclear losers will never build another power plant fission reactor in the US because they don’t have the ability and see no profit unless all losses are completely shifted to the public. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/47 "2014-08-24T06:53:18Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > If nuclear power is so wonderful, where are all the new plants in the US? Are those darn hippies stopping progress again? Or is it perhaps the enormous liability and cost of installing it? There will never be another nuclear power plant built in the US because its proponents can’t muster the money and political clout that windfarms manage every day. You know, if a simple search can show otherwise, one wonders why it is not made before making erroneous declarations like that one. [http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/24/utilities-southern-co-nuclear-idUSL2N0PZ0XY20140724](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/24/utilities-southern-co-nuclear-idUSL2N0PZ0XY20140724) > [@](#): > > Southern Co, one of the biggest U.S. power companies, said it hopes to announce plans by the end of the year to build more nuclear reactors, a spokesman said late Wednesday. > > That makes Southern the first company to pursue new reactors since the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency announced plans earlier this year to reduce carbon emissions from existing power plants to 30 percent below 2005 levels by 2030. Nuclear reactors produce almost no carbon emissions. > > The company is already building two new 1,117-megawatt reactors at its Vogtle nuclear site in Georgia and Southern Chief Executive Tom Fanning said any new reactors would be of the same Westinghouse AP1000 design. The NRC reports that there are actually 5 new ones being developed or under construction [http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactors/col-holder.html](http://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactors/col-holder.html) ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/48 "2014-08-24T07:28:47Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > If nuclear power is so wonderful, where are all the new plants in the US? Are those darn hippies stopping progress again? Or is it perhaps the enormous liability and cost of installing it? There will never be another nuclear power plant built in the US because its proponents can’t muster the money and political clout that windfarms manage every day. > > The cost of decommissioning a plant is so overwhelming that it is never even budgeted publicly. > > Nuclear losers will never build another power plant fission reactor in the US because they don’t have the ability and see no profit unless all losses are completely shifted to the public. Are you going to completely ignore the fact that nuclear power results in vastly less deaths than coal or will you address this fact? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/49 "2014-08-24T08:02:15Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > If nuclear power is so wonderful, where are all the new plants in the US? Thanks to **Gigo** and **Zoid** for already responding to this nonsense. Maybe one reason there aren’t more nuclear plants is because too many people read the kind of garbage that **Second Stone** and the ever-prolific and perpetually wrong **FX** are always linking to. I just want to provide some information here from a local perspective, from where I live. In Ontario, [about 53% of all electric power comes from nuclear energy](http://www.opg.com/generating-power/nuclear/Pages/nuclear.aspx). Ontario Power Generation (OPG) operates two major facilities with 6 reactors at Pickering and 4 at Darlington, and Bruce Power operates another 8. They’ve never harmed anyone. After the events at Fukushima, the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission (CNSC) ordered a safety review of all operating facilities. The IAEA later concluded that the response was “prompt, robust and comprehensive, and is a good practice that should be used by other regulatory bodies”. OPG currently has a License to Prepare Site for a new nuclear facility at Darlington, most likely to be an Enhanced CANDU 6 (Deuterium-Uranium) design. Plans are on hold because of reduced electricity demands, partly due to the results of electricity conservation efforts and, sadly, partly due to offshoring of manufacturing which is something we’re all familiar with. If nuclear is a problem, one wonders what the preferable alternatives are. Coal-fired power plants – aside from the obvious pollution that’s been attributed as the cause of more than 35,000 premature deaths a year in Europe alone, and the effects on climate – also are a source of radioactivity which nuclear plants are not, [because of the concentrations of naturally occurring radioactive elements](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/coal-ash-is-more-radioactive-than-nuclear-waste/) in the fly ash and slag that results from burning coal. All things considered, it’s truly hard to imagine an energy source worse than coal. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/50 "2014-08-24T20:08:29Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > . . . it’s truly hard to imagine an energy source worse than coal. Well, gosh, no, it’s easy. We used it for millennia: the burning of wood! ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/51 "2014-08-24T22:38:26Z")
I’m curious about what we’re proposing to do with the radioactive waste at Fukushima. It’s not like they can haul it to the local landfill or anything. Same with TMI, we going to leave that stuff in the basement … there’s no place to haul it to. As far as I know spent nuclear fuels rods have to be stored on-site indefinitely. Part of the problem at Fukushima is keeping the water pool filled up to keep the (still hot) fuel rods cooled down. It stays put, decades until it can be handled … and then who’s to say there will be a place to take it. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/52 "2014-08-24T23:08:34Z")
Burning wood is at least carbon neutral. Fossil fuels aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/53 "2014-08-25T00:38:51Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Burning wood is at least carbon neutral. Fossil fuels aren’t. We don’t have to wait decades to fix a woodpile that’s fallen over. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/54 "2014-08-30T19:33:17Z")
Ash from any kind of fossil fuel, or wood, isn’t a danger for the next 250,000 years. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034/55 "2014-08-30T21:02:35Z")
Extinctions from habitat loss due to over-foresting is a danger forever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-one-wants-you-to-know-how-bad-fukushima-might-still-be/696034.md?page=2)