Another possible debate here (addressed on other websites) is whether the use of tasers, a painful and potentially deadly tool, was justified in this situation.
(And from my readings, it seems both reactions - outrage vs. the kid deserved it - seem to freely cross ideological lines.)
Outrage belongs in the Pit. I suggest this thread be moved.
Honestly, the guy did not need to be electrocuted. He was a flailing loon, sure, but he was out-beefed by a large factor and could have been physically subdued. I think some cops are just itching to use that taser, being trained on it and all.
meh, alright, on rewatching the full long version, maybe the police were a BIT harsh.
My further response then, is that the police were escorting him out, ok, maybe they should or shouldn’t have done so.
However, his response is to RESIST A POLICE ACTION, which CLEARLY puts him in the wrong. Regardless of whether or not they were initially justified his subsequent struggles AT LEAST justify that they detain him by force. If he had quietly left he would have had a leg to stand on, hell if he had just left while yelling he would have had no problems, but he repeatedly forced officers to escalate the amount of force they were using, and so maybe the tasing got out of hand, but really, at that point what’d he expect?
The kid just pushed it too far. After he was escorted all the way to the back of the auditorium he then escalated his resistance. From what I understand, tasers are used in order to prevent massive brute force in subduing a person, as injuries can happen on both sides. It seems to have worked her. He got tasered and they were able to haul him out without injuries to anyone. Another day in Jerkville.
So why don’t you start a pit thread then? You have a link from my OP, just cut and paste it, and you’ll be done.
I am against the use of a taser when the police or the public are not in danger. Even if the guy is a jerk and deserved it. The taser can have unpredictable results.
Besides- physical scuffles are part of the job. Suck it up and drag the guy out of there.
I pretty much agree with this, except that when that happens the amount of force that is used is greater, and injury can occur, mainly to the dragee. I should add that my position is based on the assumption that the taser is relatively safe.
I think the Taser is always wrong. They should substitute a net like Spiderman would use.
I don’t think he did anything that justified being tased. Asking belligerent questions of a public official doesn’t qualify.
It was clear that the crowd was pretty calm until the cops stepped in. They were the ones that caused the disharmony.
Sure the guy was a jerk, a wuss, and an idiot, “Don’t kill me.”, but none of those are crimes. This is basically the state of politics today. Control the forum for speech with money and keep anyone that takes an uncivil tone at all from making their point.
Our country is so pansified.
“Disruptence?”
If it’s not a word, it should be.
Plenty of people have forgotten what “civil disobedience” means. This little outburst wasn’t that. It was some kind of political fanaticism at work, and the kid got the martyrdom he wanted, if only in his own mind.
The taser HURTS.
However, it’s generally less injurious than being subdued with batons or shields or the weight of the number of police necessary to subdue someone. You can injure yourself struggling against efforts to restrain you and scream “police brutality,” and the evidence will fit your claim much more easily.
“Stop resisting or I will tase you,” would get me to stop what I was doing pretty damn quickly, let me tell you.
“Don’t tase me, bro.” Classic.
Except if you watch the long version, the overwhelming majority of the time he’s not kicking, flailing, or in anyway a danger to anyone. He was cuffed and, by all appearances, kneeling pretty calmly on the ground. He just refused to stand up and walk out. Granted that can constitute resisting arrest (depending on your state/jurisdiction) but I don’t see how that in anyway justifies the use of a weapon. If the rent a cops had an ounce of common sense they would have grabbed him under the shoulders, dragged him out to the paddy wagon, and been done with it. Instead they decided to be a-holes and pull out the “respect my authority” card. It wasn’t a matter of arresting this guy in the most peaceable manner, it was a power trip. “Stand up or I’ll taser you.”
I’ve often wondered what rights bystanders have in similar, though more flagrant instances of when you think the police are abusing their authority. For example, they’re clobbering a guy with batons, stop for bit of Gatorade, and then resume beating the now near comatose guy with batons. You have a moral obligation to protect the near comatose guy, but is there any legal protection for that (assuming there are witnesses).
FWIW, I would have jumped at the chance to taser this guy.
OK, you’re the first person who has taken this side. Why do you think it was his statements rather than his actions that led to his being arrested?
I watched the long version which was longer than the one posted (I can’t find it anymore). I’ve seen people on meth act more subdued. If he wasn’t high he had serious mental problems. He was spooled right out of the gate when he rushed at the mike and his thought process was disjointed.
It gets interesting:
**Just before Monday’s scuffle started, Meyer asked a woman to tape his exchange with Kerry. One officer said the woman was “there to film him” and that Meyer asked, “Are you taping this? Do you have this? You ready?” before beginning his question.
Another officer said the 22-year-old woman said she was in line to ask a question ahead of Meyer when she was asked to tape, but she did not know him. **
Watch the tape after he’s been removed from the room:
**“There are people who know I’m here, you can’t like… kill me”
“They’re giving me to the government”. “They’re giving me to the government”. “They’re giving me to the government”.
“They’re going to try to kill me”. “They’re going to try to kill me”". “They’re going to try to kill me”**
I originally thought that he wanted it filmed because he was in a paranoid state. His strange behavior combined with his close proximity to a US Senator warranted immediate action by the police. I don’t know if he was on drugs, crazy, or pulling a prank but the police reacted swiftly to a potentially dangerous situation. The short clip of his arrest doesn’t show his strange behavior before or after. It is very misleading.
What is also not seen is his demeanor on his way to jail:
An officer, however, said in the police report that Meyer’s “demeanor completely changed once the cameras were not in sight” and that he was “laughing” and “lighthearted” on the way to jail.
That makes it look like the kind of stunt a Telecomunications major might pull. Particularly one who likes to make videos:
Meyer, a senior telecommunications major from the Fort Lauderdale suburb of Weston, has a Web site featuring several homemade videos. In one, he stands in a street with a sign that says “Harry Dies” after the latest Harry Potter book was released. In another, he acts like a drunk in a bar while trying to pick up a man dressed in drag
That’s what I thought. At one point I thought his “help mes” and “ows” sounded fake.
Harry DIES?!?!?!!?!
FUCK.
That’s… that’s…
[sub]who’m i kidding- i was never gonna read the damn books anyway.[/sub]
IMHO, the guy deserved to be arrested, but the use of a taser in this and all similar circumstances should be outlawed. They had six cops on top of him. He was no danger to himself, the cops, or the bystanders.
Florida has been especially under the gun for the use of tasers, and I thought we had adopted a “defense only” policy for tasers. In other words, if someone threatens your life or serious injury, then you can shoot them with a gun. If someone threatens you short of serious injury, then you can use a taser.
But if you are under no physical threat at all, not a private citizen, or a police officer should be using physical force of any kind…
Not much of a debate, more of an opinion here.
You have a controversial, well known US Senator and a seemingly deranged man resisting arrest, breaking away from the cops at one point and moving in the direction of Kerry. I think the police acted with great restraint.
The guy is flailing at them and resisting arrest. The only way to stop someone who is running around like a crazy person is a pile-on. Using a taser greatly reduces the chance of injury for all parties.
Police officers are not punching bags. If they are threatened with bodily harm they have every right to deal with it in a manner that is appropriate and safe. He was given the opportunity to stop. Any inconvenience he received from being tased is a direct result of his actions.
They had this on the news here this morning.
Regardless of whether or not the guy was a jerk, the fact was the cops did NOT need to Taser him. He wasn’t armed, he wasn’t threatening anyone physically, and there were half a dozen cops on top of him.
It doesn’t matter how many warnings they gave the guy, they didn’t need to Taser him. At all- they could have just carried him out of the room, for example (handcuffed in needs be).
Sure, OK, I wasn’t there, but I’ve neither seen nor heard anything in relation to this situation which would have warranted the use of a Taser, which makes me think the security people in this situation were a little too quick on the draw with the Tasering, so to speak.