# No paid maternity leave in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 2, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638 "2015-02-02T21:15:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/41 "2015-02-03T14:55:51Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Sorry about that, but the [page it’s from](http://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa13/programs-policies/p/maternity-leave.html) doesn’t provide the same information. > Here’s the relevant data copy/pasted: I stuck a warning in front of the link just to be safe. Thanks for providing the actual information you were pointing to here. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/42 "2015-02-03T15:56:51Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Correct, there is no statutory requirement for any kind of paid leave, which is one reason FMLA was passed. You don’t get your salary, but you are guaranteed that when your leave period ends you will have the same job or at least [equivalent](http://kb.dol.gov/DOLArticlePage?agency=WHD&parentCatValue=&article=ka0i0000000KUqyAAG). Theoretically, anyway. I know of several women who were either “laid off” while pregnant (a handy way to get rid of people without getting sued) or whose jobs were made redundant just before or while on maternity leave. If you work for a major corporation, good luck with a lawsuit. [/jaded] We do need national health, disability (beyond the joke that is SSDI), and maternity leave systems. I imagine if our health system were decent and available to all to access before problems got to be major, we’d need less disability and FMLA. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/43 "2015-02-03T16:02:51Z")
> [@Snnipe\_70E](#): > > 3 years I went out on FMLA for knee surgery. I was out 90 days. The 1st week I was paid 40 hours sick time. Then after the 1st week I received 55% of my normal wage is disability pay from the state, plus 20 hours sick pay each week. > > Last year my wife had knee surgery. 1st week 40 hours sick time. After the 1str week 55% of her pay each week from the state, plus 45% from her employer. I am so glad that my current employer has AFLAC…I will need foot surgery in the next year or so (claw toe and hammertoes to be repaired) so will be out 2-3 weeks. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/44 "2015-02-03T18:39:36Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > So, in my experience, you can ask, but with my admittedly small sample size - its not nearly as common as recruiters let you think it is for it to actually be something that can be negotiated. In my experience, it is. I have negotiated for and received additional PTO - both when starting a job and during my tenure. Many sites suggest negotiating for more PTO: > [@](#): > > [Paid vacation](http://www.careerbuilder.com/article/cb-967-getting-ahead-things-you-can-negotiate-for-at-work-and-didnt-know-it/)time is an extra benefit that is often negotiated at the time a job offer is made. Companies often use extra vacation with pay as an incentive to bring new talent onboard. They may also use it as a retention tool if an employee is considering leaving. You can negotiate for a few more days or even weeks than you were originally offered. > [@](#): > > [In a market](http://www.forbes.com/sites/learnvest/2012/09/14/5-unexpected-times-you-should-negotiate/2/)full of pay freezes and tough job-hunting, employers might have more wiggle room with perks like vacation, flex scheduling, continuing ed benefits and even tuition reimbursement, since these perks are often less costly to them. > [@](#): > > [The only folks](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-robinson/how-to-get-more-vacation-time_b_920672.html)who get more vacation time are the ones who ask for it. Here are a few strategies that can help you do that: Of course, there are other sites that say it’s not worthwhile. The results would be difficult to quantify, but it is a fairly common negotiating strategy. The problem in this thread is that is is nigh impossible to compare the disparate, decentralized PTO plans in the US to the much more homogenous, government dictated plans in some other countries. Some people like one, some the other. Middle ground is difficult to find. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/45 "2015-02-03T19:04:53Z")
One thing to keep in mind is that the US has a patchwork of labor laws. Where I’m at (California), we get 6 weeks paid disability leave for pregnancy and child birth, plus another 6 weeks paid parental bonding leave (each parent). So that’s about 1/8th of the US that gets better than the federal minimum. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/46 "2015-02-03T20:08:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > No _mandatory_ paid maternity leave. Most employers with halfway decent benefit packages provide it, but they do so for reasons of competition rather than obligation. Most? I’m curious as to whether most employers do, and I’d be (pleasantly) surprised if it turned out to be _most_ employers (with halfway decent benefit packages – so of course, I guess by definition, most of them do). Or, if they do, how much paid leave they provide. My employer, for example, provides two weeks paid leave, and the firm is thought to have a pretty good benefits package. My last employer provided none. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/47 "2015-02-03T20:15:35Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > One thing to keep in mind is that the US has a patchwork of labor laws. Where I’m at (California), we get 6 weeks paid disability leave for pregnancy and child birth, plus another 6 weeks paid parental bonding leave (each parent). So that’s about 1/8th of the US that gets better than the federal minimum. It’s important to note the the benefit is limited for both the disability portion and the PFL portion. The amount is based on previous quarters earnings and is capped fairly low. CA is one of the two states that require carryover of earned PTO so for some the paperwork isn’t with the hassle of doing PFL. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/48 "2015-02-03T20:16:57Z")
I think it’s pretty unusual for employers, even in pretty middle-class jobs, to offer anything beyond accumulated leave and the option to buy very expensive short term disability coverage. At least, that’s been my experience. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/49 "2015-02-03T20:31:46Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I think it’s pretty unusual for employers, even in pretty middle-class jobs, to offer anything beyond accumulated leave and the option to buy very expensive short term disability coverage. At least, that’s been my experience. The employers I’ve worked for (insurance and software) have provided short-term disability coverage as a benefit. They realize that people need surgeries and so on, and it’s better for everyone. It costs a lot more to bring a new employee up to speed than to hold a job for an established employee for a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/50 "2015-02-03T22:38:17Z")
> [@BOOM](#): > > Hang on, 25% of US women take greater leave than 100% of women in “Malta, Switzerland, New Zealand, Australia and Ireland, among others” - is that what you’re saying is a good thing? Besides which, that’s very misleading because he’s comparing amounts actually taken among the **top quartile** of Americans with the legally mandated **minimums** in the other comparison countries. That’s pulling a fast one if ever I saw it. Paid or not, I don’t think I know anyone among my peer group of mothers who took as little as 9 weeks off after birth. Fairly standard would be something like 9 months to a year for the mum, a week or two (out of usual holiday leave) for the dad. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/51 "2015-02-03T22:45:42Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > The employers I’ve worked for (insurance and software) have provided short-term disability coverage as a benefit. They realize that people need surgeries and so on, and it’s better for everyone. It costs a lot more to bring a new employee up to speed than to hold a job for an established employee for a few months. In education, IME, they don’t pick up any of the premium. And if you are out for 6-12 weeks, they put in a sub at 1/3 to 1/2 of your daily rate and save money until you come back. And generally they expect you to support the sub (provide lesson plans, maybe grade papers/enter grades from home) even if you are out of accumulated days/have no coverage, so you aren’t getting paid at all. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2015, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/52 "2015-02-03T23:30:31Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > That’s pulling a fast one if ever I saw it. > . You mean to say someone is behaving disingenuously on the conservative side of this discussion? Heavens to Betsy! How could we have seen this coming? ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/53 "2015-02-04T15:38:36Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Besides which, that’s very misleading because he’s comparing amounts actually taken among the **top quartile** of Americans with the legally mandated **minimums** in the other comparison countries. That’s pulling a fast one if ever I saw it. -So is comparing the US system to the top handful of countries in the world -So is comparing a decentralized system to centralized ones It’s apples to oranges, either way. ---
**Author:** ![Obsidian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/51bf81/32.png) [@Obsidian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obsidian)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/54 "2015-02-04T18:47:01Z")
> [@Saintly\_Loser](#): > > Most? I’m curious as to whether most employers do, and I’d be (pleasantly) surprised if it turned out to be _most_ employers (with halfway decent benefit packages – so of course, I guess by definition, most of them do). Or, if they do, how much paid leave they provide. My employer, for example, provides two weeks paid leave, and the firm is thought to have a pretty good benefits package. My last employer provided none. My employer does 16-18 paid + 6 unpaid, which you can cover out of your PTO hoard, which being California many of us have. We’re in an industry that is _highly_ competitive for talent, and desperately wants to fix it’s gender ratio, so this is pretty common among similar companies. The elaborate benefits offered by Silicon Valley in general is very well known, probably honestly some of the best in the country. And we’re still beaten by many countries’ minimums. (Worth noting that the state of CA is generous in the mandated unpaid leave. I would be entitled to take that entire stretch of time off either unpaid or partially paid through PFL regardless of what my employer said. They’re just choosing to pay.) ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/55 "2015-02-04T21:14:53Z")
> [@Doctor\_Jackson](#): > > -So is comparing the US system to the top handful of countries in the world > -So is comparing a decentralized system to centralized ones > > It’s apples to oranges, either way. Well, no, the US is the wealthiest country in the world, so comparing it to the top countries is sensible. Decentralised vs centralised … depends where the individual states are. FWIW, I have no particular brief for long paid maternity leave. **RivkahChaya** is on the money here … big incentives to have kids belong to countries with low birthrates. Neither Australia nor the US is currently in that position, therefore we are low down on the list. Mind you, I still think 12 weeks is a terribly small amount of time for the unpaid leve portion of the equation. But US law mandates so little leave in the first place that I suppose it’s of a piece with general employment policy. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/56 "2015-02-04T21:21:32Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Well, no, the US is the wealthiest country in the world, so comparing it to the top countries is sensible. Decentralised vs centralised … depends where the individual states are. > > FWIW, I have no particular brief for long paid maternity leave. **RivkahChaya** is on the money here … big incentives to have kids belong to countries with low birthrates. Neither Australia nor the US is currently in that position, therefore we are low down on the list. > > Mind you, I still think 12 weeks is a terribly small amount of time for the unpaid leve portion of the equation. But US law mandates so little leave in the first place that I suppose it’s of a piece with general employment policy. I think he proved he is not amenable to reason on this issue when he said the US can’t be compared to other wealthy countries. I’d give up. Some discussions are not worth having. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctor_jackson/32/32_2.png) [@Doctor\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/57 "2015-02-05T16:05:13Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > I think he proved he is not amenable to reason on this issue when he said the US can’t be compared to other wealthy countries. I’d give up. Some discussions are not worth having. Read for comprehension, please. That is NOT what I said. I said that comparing the US to the top handful of countries in the world (on any subject) is misleading. How about comparing [productivity](http://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2013/02/labour-productivity-in-recession-why.html) in the US against high PTO countries? The US clearly blows everyone else away. Which is better, high productivity or more time off? It’s a delicate balance. The US may be too far on one end of the spectrum but it’s clear that other countries have gone too far in the other direction. There is no way the US can match up with the top handful on all measures. No country is that wealthy. It’s about values. In this scenario, the US apparently values productivity more than time off. You can speculate as to why (hint: it ain’t as simple as “greedy corporations oppressing the people”, so don’t go there). The world is not nearly as simple as you seem to think, **get lives** , it involves a complicated series of trade offs. But if it makes you feel more secure to keep the simplistic view, then more power to you. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2015, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/58 "2015-02-05T18:05:15Z")
See, doctor Jackson, here’s the problem with your arguments. When middle-class families have to choose between having kids and having the wife work enough to REMAIN middle class, what you get is childless couples who are slightly upper middle class, and people with kids who are barely even lower middle class. As a result, most kids grow up near the poverty line, with all the attendant issues that come with that. The wealthy won’t choose to have more than the usual 2-3 kids or so (see “The Fates of Nations” by Colinvaux for an ecological analysis of the reasons why), so the net result is that more kids grow up poorer than if there were mandatory paid maternity leave. “But productivity goes down when there’s more maternity leave!”, you might say…and you’d be absolutely right. However, the gains in wealth from extra productivity go almost entirely to the 1%, leaving children in the same predicament as if we had lower productivity. Now you’re right, there’s a ideal balance point somewhere, beyond which there are diminishing societal gains to making sure working moms have enough maternity leave. However, we’re not there yet. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/59 "2015-02-06T03:31:26Z")
So I guess I had the right of it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638/60 "2015-02-06T05:12:47Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > That was **Cecil’s** conclusion back in 2001: > > [Do Americans get less vacation than people in other developed countries?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2292/do-americans-get-less-vacation-than-people-in-other-developed-countries): > > I have one nitpick with the reference to 10 days in Canada: in most provinces and federally, it’s expressed as two weeks (i.e. weekends are included). And in Saskatchewan, the minimum is higher: three weeks for a new hire, with increases depending on the number of years a person has worked for that employer. Having a public holiday does not require time off. My very large company gives only 8 holiday days (no Presidents day.) My daughter has just moved from Germany to the US, and her available vacation has plummeted. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-paid-maternity-leave-in-the-us/711638.md?page=4)