# No Palestinian state, says Sharon aid **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 6, 2004, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-palestinian-state-says-sharon-aid/267892 "2004-10-06T18:40:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-palestinian-state-says-sharon-aid/267892/41 "2004-10-08T20:41:33Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Bah… > > What really annoys the tits off me, to borrow an apt expression, is the insistence by certain leftwing or anti-Israeli debaters to use Nazi terminology or compare Israelis with Nazis, Israel with NaziGermany etc… I see it all the time. Can’t walk down the street without some sticker “David star” = “Swastika”. Zionism = Nazism or something. Cheap demagogy! If you really want an open debate you don’t start out by calling the other side the worst thing imaginable. Next time you watch Monty Python’s _Life of Brian,_ watch close at the very end – the commandos of the Judaean People’s Front Crack Suicide Squad (“That’ll show 'em!”) wear a device on their helmets which is a Star of David with a sort of swastika arm added to each of the six points. There was a scene written for the film but (like **most** material written for it) not included in the final cut – you have to buy the book. (_Monty Python’s Life of Brian (of Nazareth),_ Methuen 2002.) Brian encounters the JPF’s leader, Otto (wearing the above-described helmet), who talks about anti-Roman national revolution as well as the need to remove the Samaritans and Syrians from the traditionally Jewish regions of etc., etc. One wonders why they decided to leave that out . . . ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-palestinian-state-says-sharon-aid/267892/42 "2004-10-09T03:50:13Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Please, don’t start that again. > > Jesus. Is this never gonna end, until both the Palestinians and the Israelis have wiped each other out? What’s the use? Think of the alternative where Israel withdraws from all occupied territories, what kind of government structure or foundations do they have? Will it be a democratic government? the answer to those questions is no. A Palestinian state now would be a disaster, in which the ‘country’ would be regionalised, factionalised with severe infighting and corruption which would make Arafat blush. I know Israel has to eventually pull out, but there has to be some give and take from the Palestinians, first things first, boot out Hamas and Hezbollah, and somehow dump arafat and work towards a real democratic representative government. If this is not done, then its merely swapping Israeli oppression with an Arab face. And since one side refuses to withdraw because of security problems, and the other because its ‘pride’ is at stake, there will be no resolution to this problem. Both have everything to lose with peace. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-palestinian-state-says-sharon-aid/267892/43 "2004-10-09T18:24:56Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I know Israel has to eventually pull out, but there has to be some give and take from the Palestinians, first things first, boot out Hamas and Hezbollah, and somehow dump arafat and work towards a real democratic representative government. If this is not done, then its merely swapping Israeli oppression with an Arab face. I think it’s clear from the evidence, **Ryan,** that, other things being equal, the Palestinians would much, much rather by oppressed by fellow Arabs than by Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-palestinian-state-says-sharon-aid/267892/44 "2004-10-09T20:29:37Z")
In fact **Brian** , it is clear that it doesn’t even have to be all else equal. They’ apparently rahter have worse oppression under the heel of a fellow Arab, than lesser offenses at the hands of others. What Palestine does to itself after Israel is out of there is not up to Israel or the US to decide. Israel can merely insist for security guarentees that are deliverable and only hold off on other perks (like open borders, trade, jobs, co-investments, etc,) if certain conditions exist. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-palestinian-state-says-sharon-aid/267892.md?page=2)