# No "Pound Me In The Ass Prison" for Scooter
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 2, 2007, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281 "2007-07-02T22:13:42Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 8
### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/141 "2007-07-04T15:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster]
Are you for real? Then why didn’t his “facts” lead to a single conviction of what he was investigating?
[/quote]
You \*have \* heard of the Fifth Amendment, haven’t you? If not, you should read it sometime; it’s great stuff. Fitz couldn’t get Cheney and Rove without someone _else_’s solid testimony about their roles, because they couldn’t be required to incriminate themselves. That’s Civics 101, friend. But if they _weren’t_ the ones on trial, that sort of information \*could \* be presented. Got it now, sport?
> [@](#):
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> Do you think if you say something enough times or with enough rolleyes it takes on an aura or truth?
The truth is out there, and in simple language. The rolleyes are a special bonus, just for you, in recognition of your simple obstinacy. You don’t have to do any actual \*thinking \* if you don’t want to, of course, but that failure comes with a price on this board.
> [@](#):
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> No, the same sort of dysfunction as Starr’s where millions of dollars and immeasurable time and energy is dedicated to getting to the bottom of something and nothing is ever proven.
You’re ignoring the differences. In the Libby/Cheney/Rove case, nothing more was ever proven because of Libby taking the fall. In Starr’s efforts, nothing was ever proven because _it wasn’t there_. But you know that already, or at least have no excuse not to.
> [@](#):
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> You keep propping up your straw men.
YOU brought up the Starr comparisons. If you can’t support them, and you can’t, that isn’t anybody \*else’\*s fault, now is it?
And, just for emphasis, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
---
### Author:  [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/142 "2007-07-04T15:40:29Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves]
You \*have \* heard of the Fifth Amendment, haven’t you? If not, you should read it sometime; it’s great stuff. Fitz couldn’t get Cheney and Rove without someone _else_’s solid testimony about their roles, because they couldn’t be required to incriminate themselves. That’s Civics 101, friend. But if they _weren’t_ the ones on trial, that sort of information \*could \* be presented. Got it now, sport?
[/quote]
Yeah, sparky, I do. It is absolutely a given for you that Cheney and Rove did something evil. If only someone would tell the truth about it, then we’d all know, just like you. But that’s also a given for you–Libby, given truth serum, would undoubtedly implicate the administration. Your spider-sense tells you this is so.
> [@](#):
>
> The truth is out there, and in simple language. The rolleyes are a special bonus, just for you, in recognition of your simple obstinacy. You don’t have to do any actual \*thinking \* if you don’t want to, of course, but that failure comes with a price on this board.
Standard Elvis blather. The truth is out there. Right.
> [@](#):
>
> You’re ignoring the differences. In the Libby/Cheney/Rove case, nothing more was ever proven because of Libby taking the fall. In Starr’s efforts, nothing was ever proven because _it wasn’t there_. But you know that already, or at least have no excuse not to.
Make your case, then sport! Lay out the known facts that show that Fitzgerald’s investigation had merit. Go on. I’ll continue to wait.
> [@](#):
>
> YOU brought up the Starr comparisons. If you can’t support them, and you can’t, that isn’t anybody \*else’\*s fault, now is it?
I did support them. I showed why they were analogous goatfucks that produced no real results relative to their initial objectives. This is hard for you, isn’t it?
> [@](#):
>
> And, just for emphasis, :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Elvis, it’s reassuring to see you have maintained the level of debate you established long ago. How can I argue with this?
---
### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/143 "2007-07-04T16:15:14Z")
[QUOTE=Stratocaster]
The straw men continue. You’re picking nits.
[/quote]
If you wish to call comments about your cavalier dismissal of the results of a trial as nit picking, I can’t stop you.
> [@](#):
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> Fitzgerald’s own words in the trial suggest that he believed the jury could be swayed, at least in part, by an argument that Libby–while fully guilty–was also the scapegoat for a corrupt administration. Do I _know_ he believed this? No, only he does. But I know what he said.
>
> The jury not only responded with a guilty verdict, but provided rhetoric afterward showing they they bought into this line of argument.
Are you claiming that the jury ignored the evidence and convicted based only on Fitzgerald’s closing argument?
The juror’s comments didn’t indicate in any way that the convicted based on that juror’s opinion that Libby was just a “fall guy.”
> [@](#):
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> I’m not arguing Libby was a fall guy. The attorneys did and the jury was inclined to believe it. Before you spout _your_ tired crap, what of these statements seems illogical to you?Okay, again the baseless claim. Show the evidence that demonstrates this is so. Not the details that lead you to think it’s possible. Help us out by playing out the syllogism that maps a “he’s protecting the administration from being charged with something criminal” conclusion to the specific facts established in the case. I’ll wait. And let me again give you a hint–if that could be done with any sort of reasonable certainty, charges would have been brought. And (I may have mentioned this before) they were not. Not a single one.
Did I bring up the claim that Libby was just a fall guy? I don’t think so. I started out by saying that LIbby’s lies and obstruction impeded the investigation to the point that no one else was endangered. Maybe he did it on his own. There was no claim that someone engineered him into doing it.
And was it Libby’s lawyers lawyers who claimed that he was a fall guy?
Since you were so helpful in providing a cite for my edification here is one for you. This mornings _Los Angeles Times_ carried a story about[the averagesentence in obstruction of justice cases brought by the Bush administration.](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-libby4jul04,0,6710317.story?coll=la-home-center). It looks to me like there is no justification for GW’s claim that Libby’s sentence of 30 months in prison was unduly harsh. The average sentence in 3/4 of the obstruction cases brought was 70 months.
> [@](#):
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> In commuting the sentence of I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby, President Bush said that the former vice presidential aide had suffered enough and that the 30-month prison term ordered up by a federal judge was “excessive.”
>
> But records show that the Justice Department under the Bush administration frequently has sought sentences that are as long, or longer, in cases similar to Libby’s. Three-fourths of the 198 defendants sentenced in federal court last year for obstruction of justice — one of four crimes Libby was found guilty of in March — got some prison time. According to federal data, the average sentence defendants received for that charge alone was 70 months.
GW’s justice department has been a strong advocate of sentencing guideline to prevent judges from being too lenient. Yet he ignored the guidelines in commuting the sentence of one of his political cronies. This can have negative effects on the justice system.
> [@](#):
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> .That Bush chose to make an exception for a political ally is galling to many career Justice Department prosecutors and other legal experts. Federal prosecutors said Tuesday the action would make it harder for them to persuade judges to deliver appropriate sentences.
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> The critics included some Republicans who said Bush’s decision did not square with an administration that had been ardently pro law-and-order. “It denigrates the significance of perjury prosecutions,” John S. Martin Jr., a former U.S. attorney and federal judge in New York, said of the commutation.
And finally, GW’s action is contrary to recent practice with regard to commuing sentences.
> [@](#):
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> Sentencing experts said Bush’s action appeared to be without recent precedent. They could not recall another case in which someone sentenced to prison had received a presidential commutation without having served any part of that sentence. Presidents have customarily commuted sentences only when someone has served substantial time.
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> “We can’t find any cases, certainly in the last half century, where the president commuted a sentence before it had even started to be served,” said Margaret Colgate Love, a former pardon attorney at the Justice Department. “This is really, really unusual.”
You have no presented any real agument, just your claim that Fitzgeral was harsh on the Scooter in his handling of the case. Poor baby.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/144 "2007-07-04T18:31:37Z")
FWIW, the House Judiciary Committee will [have a hearing on the Libby commutation next Wednesday.](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzE1NDRjMDhjN2Q4MjYwZWVkOWI0NTY2NzEzZDIyYmQ=)
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/145 "2007-07-04T18:44:50Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
FWIW, the House Judiciary Committee will [have a hearing on the Libby commutation next Wednesday.](http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NzE1NDRjMDhjN2Q4MjYwZWVkOWI0NTY2NzEzZDIyYmQ=)
[/QUOTE]
[GWB] Oooooooh! I’m _soooo_ scared! [/GWB] Wake me up when it’s an _impeachment_ hearing with promises to send Shrub to the Hague once he’s removed.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/146 "2007-07-04T19:03:05Z")
Obviously, his uncle owns the presidency.
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/147 "2007-07-04T19:12:04Z")
Incidently, the title of this thread furthers a misconception of what sort of prison Scooter would have gone to.
Leavenworth or its brothers in the federal system don’t have time or room to deal with the Libbys.
He would have gone to a Club Fed like the one at Eglin AF Base in Florida. There he would have lived in a dormitory and spent his time raking leaves, washing windows and doing other housekeeping chores around the prison and the base.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/148 "2007-07-04T20:40:12Z")
Before you go on about how soft these “Club Fed” prisons are, keep in mind that, in the entire system, there is not one _sous_ chef on the payroll! Not _one_!
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/149 "2007-07-04T22:16:13Z")
**This should knock the President’s Libby Outrage right off the USA’s Radar:**
[Al Gore’s son busted for drugs in hybrid car](http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0428148420070704)
> [@](#):
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> Al Gore III – – was driving his environmentally friendly car at about 100 miles per hour on a freeway south of Los Angeles when he was pulled over by an Orange County sheriff’s deputy at about 2:15 a.m..
>
> A subsequent search yielded a small amount of marijuana, along with prescription drugs including Valium, Xanax, Vicodin and Adderall, said sheriff’s spokesman Jim Amormino. There were no prescriptions found, he said.
I can hardly wait to hear the arguments for how this disproves the possibility of Anthropogenic Global Warming.
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/150 "2007-07-04T22:35:10Z")
[QUOTE=Squink]
**This should knock the President’s Libby Outrage right off the USA’s Radar:**
[Al Gore’s son busted for drugs in hybrid car](http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSN0428148420070704) I can hardly wait to hear the arguments for how this disproves the possibility of Anthropogenic Global Warming.
[/QUOTE]
Or how Bill Clinton and Al Gore conspired with Fitzgerald and the judge to give Scooter the severe sentence of almost half the average length of sentences for others in cases of obstruction of justice. [See cite here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8745227&postcount=143)
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/151 "2007-07-04T23:05:16Z")
100 MPH? Dang, I didn’t know hybrids went that fast.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [July 4, 2007, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/152 "2007-07-04T23:30:52Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
100 MPH? Dang, I didn’t know hybrids went that fast.
[/QUOTE]
They do, but it takes about half an hour to get there.
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/153 "2007-07-05T00:46:28Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan]
100 MPH? Dang, I didn’t know hybrids went that fast.
[/QUOTE]
Only in free fall, from 3,000 ft.
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2007, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/154 "2007-07-05T01:06:30Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim]
They do, but it takes about half an hour to get there.
[/QUOTE]
On level ground. Various net sites give the top speed as around 109 mph. It helps if you are going downhill.
Anyone who wants a high-performance sports car shouldn’t buy a Prius.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2007, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/155 "2007-07-05T01:09:28Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons]
On level ground. Various net sites give the top speed as around 109 mph. It helps if you are going downhill.
Anyone who wants a high-performance sports car shouldn’t buy a Prius.
[/QUOTE]
Also, anyone who wants a low-performance sports car shouldn’t buy a Prius.
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2007, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/156 "2007-07-05T01:13:51Z")
Have I waited long enough to ask what an “Ass Prison” is?
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### Author:  [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2007, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/157 "2007-07-05T01:16:56Z")
[QUOTE=askeptic]
Have I waited long enough to ask what an “Ass Prison” is?
[/QUOTE]
It refers to homosexual activity by those confined for long periods of time.
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### Author:  [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2007, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/158 "2007-07-05T01:19:08Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons]
On level ground. Various net sites give the top speed as around 109 mph. It helps if you are going downhill.
Anyone who wants a high-performance sports car shouldn’t buy a Prius.
[/QUOTE]
Right. Get a [Tesla.](http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php)
Actually, **Boyo Jim** , I’ve heard of people hopping up their Prius’s to make them go faster.
**askeptic** , it’s a reference to the movie _Office Space_ wherein a couple of the characters learn that if their plan backfires, it won’t get them into a “nice” ClubFed-type prison, but one in which they can expect some very bad things to happen to them (namely, getting “pounded in the ass”).
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### Author:  [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/159 "2007-07-05T01:20:18Z")
Dunno, but an “ass prion” is what causes Mad Butt disease.
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### Author:  [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)
#### Post date: [July 5, 2007, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pound-me-in-the-ass-prison-for-scooter/410281/160 "2007-07-05T01:43:08Z")
I guess I should stop trying to make punctuation jokes.
No “Pound Me In The Ass” prison for Scooter.
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