# No pre-Western civilisation in Australia? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 16, 2009, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pre-western-civilisation-in-australia/503209 "2009-07-16T11:55:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pre-western-civilisation-in-australia/503209/121 "2009-08-01T23:01:49Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > My understanding is that the Fertile Crescent farming package spread so swiftly that most cultures not separated from it by geographical barriers adopted it instead of developing their own native plants and animals (which were usually less suitable). Jared Diamond in “The Third Chimpanzee”, pg 183 _" In fact the archaeological record shows that agriculture advanced across Europe at a snails pace, barely 1000 yards a year!"_ It took 4500 years to go from the Near East to Britain. That being said, Diamond seems to be saying that agriculture _spread to_ Britain. However, he does state that agriculture does seem to be a normal outgrowth of human behaviors, so certainly it’s _possible_ for the Britons to have started along the road to agriculture before being exposed to it. ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pre-western-civilisation-in-australia/503209/122 "2009-08-02T00:24:28Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > I see,the fact that agriculture was independantly discovered on a whole continent doesn’t actually carry any weight when it comes to talking about former colonial powers ? Who said anything about former colonial powers? What has Britain’s status as a former colonial power got to do with the development of agriculture millennia earlier? > [@](#): > > I refer you to my earlier cite,a Channel Four documentary called Britain B.C. researched and presented by a very well respected archaeologist,Francis Prior . Pryor. > [@](#): > > The fact that you haven’t read anything to the contrary tells us more about your reading choices rather then the researched,historical and documented facts available to any reasonably interested,dispassionate historian. Not really. It just means that he/she hasn’t read Dr Pryor’s book. Neither have I. But various writers who have written on this topic for a popular audience do not include Britain among the places where agriculture was developed independently. This could be because they were unaware of the researched, historical and documented facts you mention, or because they do not feel that the facts support this conclusion. > [@](#): > > Unfortunately the world is as it IS,rather then how we’d like it to be based on our ideas of fairness and or political correctness. Indeed. And yet you see it as more important to mention these particular red herrings than any factual evidence that might support your claim. This makes me suspect that your own views may be coloured by extraneous considerations such as particularism, chauvinism or defiance of political correctness. So, what evidence leads Dr Pryor to believe that agriculture arose independently in Britain rather than by diffusion? What crops and animals characterised this native agriculture? ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pre-western-civilisation-in-australia/503209/123 "2009-08-02T13:42:46Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Who said anything about former colonial powers? What has Britain’s status as a former colonial power got to do with the development of agriculture millennia earlier? > > Pryor. > > Not really. It just means that he/she hasn’t read Dr Pryor’s book. Neither have I. But various writers who have written on this topic for a popular audience do not include Britain among the places where agriculture was developed independently. This could be because they were unaware of the researched, historical and documented facts you mention, or because they do not feel that the facts support this conclusion. > > Indeed. And yet you see it as more important to mention these particular red herrings than any factual evidence that might support your claim. This makes me suspect that your own views may be coloured by extraneous considerations such as particularism, chauvinism or defiance of political correctness. > > So, what evidence leads Dr Pryor to believe that agriculture arose independently in Britain rather than by diffusion? What crops and animals characterised this native agriculture? Could this stinging response have anything to do with my daring to mention that Ireland gave safe haven to Nazi war criminals at the end of WW2 **Hibernicus**? Check out Pryors stuff yourself,you’ve obviously looked him up as you were able to correct the spelling of his name(I really,really must teach my ears to spell). By checking it out for yourself you can be certain that I won’t misinterpret anything or mislead you in any way. Nor will you be able to accuse me of doing so. \*\*Sailboats \*\* post was all to obviously based on some sort of a political agenda instead of facts and hard science. He’d never read about the independant discovery of agriculture so had never apparently heard of the American continent. Personally I’ve never read a recipe on how to bake a cake,but I’m pretty sure that cakes exist. The motivations behind your post? …I wonder . Hows county Tip this time of year? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pre-western-civilisation-in-australia/503209/124 "2009-08-02T15:33:41Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Indeed. And yet you see it as more important to mention these particular red herrings than any factual evidence that might support your claim. This makes me suspect that your own views may be coloured by extraneous considerations such as particularism, chauvinism or defiance of political correctness. > [@Lust4Life](#): > > Could this stinging response have anything to do with my daring to mention that Ireland gave safe haven to Nazi war criminals at the end of WW2 **Hibernicus**? > [@](#): > > \*\*Sailboats \*\* post was all to obviously based on some sort of a political agenda instead of facts and hard science. > [@](#): > > The motivations behind your post? [Moderating] Let’s stick to the factual support for particular positions, rather than trying to draw inferences about the motivations of posters in taking them. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![hibernicus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hibernicus/32/2802_2.png) [@hibernicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hibernicus)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pre-western-civilisation-in-australia/503209/125 "2009-08-03T19:45:56Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Hows county Tip this time of year? Wall-to-wall Nazis. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-pre-western-civilisation-in-australia/503209.md?page=6)