# No prescription needed to execute? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 21, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409 "2006-02-21T01:12:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/1 "2006-02-21T01:12:37Z")
Let me say right up front that I am fundamentally opposed to the death penalty on moral grounds. But I promise not to argue that here. I have a simple question; How do the executioners obtain and administer the neccessary drugs with prescription from a doctor? In California, for one, no doctor is required to carry out the death penalty. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/2 "2006-02-21T01:20:47Z")
[This reputable site says](http://www.corr.ca.gov/ReportsResearch/lethalInjection.html) that there must be one or more doctors present at executions in California. They have to be there to declare death, supervise the procedure, and be there in case something goes wrong. Every other state that I am familiar with also has doctors on hand. I don’t who actually administers the drugs. It appears they are given through an IV so several people may be involved but it is under a doctor’s supervision. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/3 "2006-02-21T01:28:49Z")
Do you have a cite that a prescription is required for the drugs used in a lethal injection? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/4 "2006-02-21T01:31:06Z")
Well, a judge can order psychatric confinement, which is kinda like perscribing. The death sentance it’s self may count. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/5 "2006-02-21T01:42:21Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Do you have a cite that a prescription is required for the drugs used in a lethal injection? One of the initial drugs administered is a barbituate. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/6 "2006-02-21T01:54:47Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > [This reputable site says](http://www.corr.ca.gov/ReportsResearch/lethalInjection.html) that there must be one or more doctors present at executions in California. They have to be there to declare death, supervise the procedure, and be there in case something goes wrong. Every other state that I am familiar with also has doctors on hand. I don’t who actually administers the drugs. It appears they are given through an IV so several people may be involved but it is under a doctor’s supervision. The cited procedure states that “As required by the California Penal Code, a physician is present to declare when death occurs.” Not that the doctor is directly involved in the (killing) drug part. I’m sure that the media said that the doctor is not required because of a ruling by the AMA. The oath says, in part, “to do no harm”. I’ll try to find a cite. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/7 "2006-02-21T02:17:48Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > One of the initial drugs administered is a barbituate. And…do you have a cite that a doctor’s prescription is required when dispensing barbituates for the purpose of execution by lethal injection? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/8 "2006-02-21T02:31:44Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > And…do you have a cite that a doctor’s prescription is required when dispensing barbituates for the purpose of execution by lethal injection? That, **Otto** , is pretty much what I’m asking here. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/9 "2006-02-21T03:09:30Z")
Doctors aren’t the only ones who can get controlled substances permits from the DEA: chemists, veterinarians, and police also may obtain such permits. [Here’s a partial list of who may obtain them](http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugreg/reg_apps/pdf_apps.htm). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/10 "2006-02-21T05:49:42Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > That, **Otto** , is pretty much what I’m asking here. Your thread title and OP are contradictory. Very confusing. ---
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/11 "2006-02-21T14:22:59Z")
This is an interesting question, given the fact that Bush’s government tried to stop the right-to-die movement by claiming that doctors couldn’t use prescriptions to hasten death. But I’m sure Bush is not against the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/12 "2006-02-21T15:50:51Z")
Here is a [list](http://people.howstuffworks.com/lethal-injection4.htm) of the drugs administered. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/13 "2006-02-21T15:58:20Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Let me say right up front that I am fundamentally opposed to the death penalty on moral grounds. But I promise not to argue that here. > I have a simple question; > How do the executioners obtain and administer the neccessary drugs with prescription from a doctor? In California, for one, **no doctor is required to carry out the death penalty.** > Peace, > mangeorge (bolding mine) Wait, does that mean that each and every doctor is not required to carry out the death penalty, or that the death penalty can be carried out without any doctor’s assistance? The wording of the bolded section is ambiguous. 'Cause if it’s just saying that no physician will be forced to carry out a death sentance against his moral or ethical judegment or hypocratic oath, than I don’t see where your question comes from - obviously, SOME doctor will be willing to assist, and can write a scrip. 'Though from what Daniel says, the police can order the meds anyway without a doctor. But there are certain procedures, including placement of IV’s and administration of injections, that can only be done by a medical professional (some of them by a doctor only, some a nurse will do), and it’s my understanding that a sterile field must be maintained, even for the death penalty. Are these limitations still ineffect for lethal injection? Could a layperson administer the drugs? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/14 "2006-02-21T16:06:13Z")
It seems inconsistent with the AG’s policy (recently rejected by the SCOTUS [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=04-623](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=04-623)) that prescribing drugs to assist suicide was not permissible. OTOH, the AG did not object when Georgia exempted the administration of drugs for lethal injection from regulation: > [@](#): > > © Notwithstanding any other provision of law, > prescription, preparation, compounding, dispensing, or > administration of a lethal injection authorized by a > sentence of death by a court of competent jurisdiction > shall not constitute the practice of medicine or any other > profession relating to health care which is subject by law > to regulation, licensure, or certification. [http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/1999\_00/leg/fulltext/hb1284.htm](http://www.legis.state.ga.us/legis/1999_00/leg/fulltext/hb1284.htm), ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/15 "2006-02-21T16:34:37Z")
> [@](#): > > There shall be present at the execution of a convicted person the superintendent of the state correctional institution or a deputy superintendent thereof, at least three executioners, **two physicians to determine when death supervenes** , and other correctional officers, assistants, technicians, and witnesses as determined by the commissioner of corrections. In addition, the convicted person may request the presence of his or her counsel, a member of the clergy, and a reasonable number of relatives and friends, provided that the total number of witnesses appearing at the request of the convicted person shall be determined by the commissioner of corrections. (Emphasis added). [http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl\_codes\_detail.pl?code=17-10-41](http://www.legis.state.ga.us/cgi-bin/gl_codes_detail.pl?code=17-10-41) So in Georgia, the physician is there to make sure the prisoner dies. The AMA, by the way, opposes physician involvement in executions. [http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/16007.html](http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/16007.html) > [@](#): > > “An anesthesiologist who enters the death chamber is clearly violating national and internationally established medical ethics,” he wrote in a statement. “Not since Nazi physicians supervised the killing of mentally and physically disabled individuals … have high-ranking physicians become so intimately involved in state-sponsored killing.” [http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/crime/story/14199016p-15025500c.htm](http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/crime/story/14199016p-15025500c.htm) (This recent article and the previous cite refer to a Federal Judge’s requirement that state to adopt certain safeguards to ensure that inmates don’t feel execessive pain.) Here are a few good articles about physician participation in executions. [http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/325/7371/1026](http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/325/7371/1026) [http://www.hrw.org/reports/1994/usdp/6.htm](http://www.hrw.org/reports/1994/usdp/6.htm) [http://www.freepress.org/departments.php/display/2/2003/412:](http://www.freepress.org/departments.php/display/2/2003/412:) > [@](#): > > Reginald Wilkinson, director of Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction, won’t answer that question. But if lethal injection in Ohio is like other states, most likely it is medical professionals (doctors and nurses) who are either directly participating in these executions or training and supervising the prison staff. But medical professionals who participate in lethal injections are violating the ethical principles of their professions. When Dr. Bruce Martin, medical director, enters the execution chamber to pronounce an inmate dead, he is violating his professional ethics. [http://www.kcadp.org/pdf%20files/Bowling%20PDF/Dr%20Groner%20Op-Ed.pdf](http://www.kcadp.org/pdf%20files/Bowling%20PDF/Dr%20Groner%20Op-Ed.pdf) (pdf) (op-ed piece about a physician-governor who must sign a death warrant). Apparently, many doctors are willing to participate: [http://www.annals.org/cgi/reprint/135/10/884.pdf](http://www.annals.org/cgi/reprint/135/10/884.pdf) (pdf) ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/16 "2006-02-21T16:47:33Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > And…do you have a cite that a doctor’s prescription is required when dispensing barbituates for the purpose of execution by lethal injection? Notwithstanding a clever joke that perpetuates the error, the word is “barbiturate.” ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/17 "2006-02-21T19:01:46Z")
[California execution delayed as doctors walk out](http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/02/21/california.execution.ap/index.html) [‘First, do no harm’: Can doctors ethically assist at executions?](http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-death19.html) ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/18 "2006-02-21T22:06:39Z")
The warden who oversees executions in Huntsville told me in an interview that the executions are performed by a privately contracted party whose identities are kept secret, and that the staff does not contain medical personnel such as doctors or nurses; I presume this to mean that they are phlebotomists. Reading through the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, there doesn’t appear to be a specific provision on how the drugs are obtained, only that the Director of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice determines and supervises the procedure and designates an executioner. TCCP Sec. 43.14 and 43.18. I suppose that might be an implicit authorization for chemical or drug wholesalers to directly supply TDCJ or their designated executioners with the chemicals necessary for the lethal injection. The fact that non-physicians may be being suppied drugs to use outside of their FDA approved functions (i.e. killing people) would seem to be sticky on the federal side of things, but the Supreme Court said in [_Heckler v. Chaney_](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=470&invol=821), 470 U.S. 821 (1985) that it’s within the FDA’s and Attorney General’s discretion to review and enforce those provisions if any are being violated. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/19 "2006-02-21T22:10:05Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Notwithstanding a clever joke that perpetuates the error,… What’s the joke? And did I just hear a whooshing sound? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/20 "2006-02-21T22:29:17Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > I presume this to mean that they are phlebotomists. Sounds about right. > [@](#): > > August 20, 1986: Randy Woolls, Texas. Lethal Injection. A drug addict, Woolls, had to help the execution technicians find a good vein for the execution. [http://www.phadp.org/botched.html](http://www.phadp.org/botched.html) > [@](#): > > Dr. Koniaris argues that first of all the executioners, at least according to the protocols he examined in Texas and Virginia, have no anaesthesia training at all, that the drugs were administered remotely with no monitering for anaesthesia , data not recorded and no peer-review was done. > [@](#): > > December 13, 1988: Raymond Landry, Texas. Lethal Injection. Pronounced dead 40 minutes after being strapped to the execution gurney and 24 minutes after the drugs started flowing into his arms. Two minutes into the killing, the syringe came out of Landry’s vein, spraying the deadly chemicals across the room towards witnesses. The execution team had to reinsert the catheter into the vein. The curtain was pulled for 14 minutes so witnesses could not observe the intermission. [http://members.tripod.com/~gadbuddhaa/thelethalinjectiongurney.htm](http://members.tripod.com/~gadbuddhaa/thelethalinjectiongurney.htm) [atypicaljoe.com](http://www.atypicaljoe.com/archives/LancetInadAnesth.pdf) (pdf) discussed in second cite. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409.md?page=2)