# No prescription needed to execute? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 21, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409 "2006-02-21T01:12:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2006, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/21 "2006-02-21T22:33:00Z")
Sorry for the double post. I jumbled the quotes on the first try. > [@pravnik](#): > > I presume this to mean that they are phlebotomists. Sounds about right. > [@](#): > > August 20, 1986: Randy Woolls, Texas. Lethal Injection. A drug addict, Woolls, had to help the execution technicians find a good vein for the execution. > [@](#): > > December 13, 1988: Raymond Landry, Texas. Lethal Injection. Pronounced dead 40 minutes after being strapped to the execution gurney and 24 minutes after the drugs started flowing into his arms. Two minutes into the killing, the syringe came out of Landry’s vein, spraying the deadly chemicals across the room towards witnesses. The execution team had to reinsert the catheter into the vein. The curtain was pulled for 14 minutes so witnesses could not observe the intermission. [http://www.phadp.org/botched.html](http://www.phadp.org/botched.html) > [@](#): > > Dr. Koniaris argues that first of all the executioners, at least according to the protocols he examined in Texas and Virginia, have no anaesthesia training at all, that the drugs were administered remotely with no monitering for anaesthesia , data not recorded and no peer-review was done. [http://members.tripod.com/~gadbuddhaa/thelethalinjectiongurney.htm](http://members.tripod.com/~gadbuddhaa/thelethalinjectiongurney.htm) [atypicaljoe.com](http://www.atypicaljoe.com/archives/LancetInadAnesth.pdf) (pdf) discussed in second cite. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/22 "2006-02-22T01:57:38Z")
My clumsy grammar (and spelling) aside, I think the spirit of my question is pretty clear. What I’m asking is, by what legal process are these drugs obtained and administered by non-medical persons. But I see this has become a very large question, as **Gfactor** linked above, so I’ll wait and see how it shakes out. Right this minute they’re discussing the issue on the news. It does seem odd to me that the feds will (sorta) bend the drug laws to kill someone, but strictly enforce those laws in the case of a herb that just might help a sick person. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/23 "2006-02-22T02:05:53Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Your thread title and OP are contradictory. Very confusing. You know something, **Otto**? You didn’t seem very confused in your first two replies. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/24 "2006-02-22T02:22:34Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Notwithstanding a clever joke that perpetuates the error, the word is “barbiturate.” Dammit, and I’ve used that joke as a mnemonic for years? **scr4** , see, there’s this lion who goes into a bar to order a drink. A floozy at the end of the bar looks up at him and says, “Screw you, ya big jerk!” The bartender shakes his head, and says, “Sorry, we don’t serve your type in here.” “Ha ha!” brays the floozy. “Yer not WANTED, why don’tcha GET THE HELL OUT!” The lion just says, “Look, man, I’ve had a long day and all I want is a beer.” The bartender shakes his head and says, “Can’t do it. Owner doesn’t like lions. Don’t make me call the bouncers over.” The floozy yells, “Hey, Frank! theresaTROUBLEMAKER HERE! a real LION! KICKHISASS!” The lion’s had just about enough. He roars, leaps over to the floozy, kills her, and eats her. And falls over unconscious. He wakes up the next day and says to the bartender, “What just happened?” Bartender shrugs. “Its the bar bitch you ate.” Daniel ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/25 "2006-02-22T04:08:31Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > August 20, 1986: Randy Woolls, Texas. Lethal Injection. A drug addict, Woolls, had to help the execution technicians find a good vein for the execution “Y’know, Randy…there’s such a thing as being _too_ helpful.” Found this paper about pharmaceutical companies and lethal injection: [Drug Companies and Their Role in Aiding Executions](http://www.ncadp.org/html/report.htm) It’s written/sponsored by The National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty and is biased accodingly, but it appears to be on the level about which companies make and supply Sodium Thiopental, Pancuronium Bromide, and Potassium Chloride and how they may be obtained by the states. There’s also this section on “How Lethal Injection Drugs Are Obtained.” > [@](#): > > The following section provides clear examples of how drugs have been obtained for use in lethal injections. Each one directly implicates the involvement of doctors, pharmacists, health and prison officials and sheds light on the ethical challenges involved in supplying or obtaining these drugs. > > Oklahoma > > In June 2001, Human Rights Watch sent a letter to McAlester Regional Health Center, provider of lethal injection drugs in Oklahoma, urging the Center to end its role in executions.xxxix Subsequently, the Center discontinued its arrangement with the Department of Corrections.xl > > New Mexico > > Terry Clark was executed by lethal injection in New Mexico on November 6, 2001. The company contracted to provide prison health services refused to supply the lethal injection drugs. This prompted Governor Gary E. Johnson to ask the state’s Secretary of Health, J. Alex Valdez, to make the purchase. Valdez requested the drugs from a pharmacy, but the pharmacist refused to comply since Valdez was not a physician. Fred Pintz, the state’s Chief Medical Officer, was then called upon to write the prescription.xli > > In reaction, Public Citizen’s Health Research Group asked New Mexico’s State Board of Medical Examiners to suspend Dr. Pintz’s license to practice medicine, followed by revocation. This request was made on the basis that Pintz—by authorizing acquisition of drugs to be used for lethal injection—had flagrantly violated a principal implicit in New Mexico’s Medical Practice Act.xlii With pressure mounting, the execution drugs that Pintz ordered were returned. The State then obtained the drugs from Colorado-based Bindley Western Industries, Inc., which is a subsidiary of Cardinal Health. > > Texas > > At least part of the time, Texas has obtained lethal injection drugs from a pharmacy in Austin and carried them a hundred miles to the execution chamber in Huntsville. The purpose behind this strategy was to relieve the prison health facility of any responsibility for or involvement in the procurement process.xliii The Texas portion cites to this article in footnote: “DA: Execution Drugs Obtained Legally,” Associated Press (Nov. 2, 2001). If anyone (e.g. **samclem** ) has access to a database that’ll pull that story, wow us, please. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/26 "2006-02-22T04:30:32Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Found this paper about pharmaceutical companies and lethal injection: Great Googling. The article is in the middle of this archive. Ctrl-F and search for “execution drugs” [http://venus.soci.niu.edu/~archives/ABOLISH/apr02/0648.html](http://venus.soci.niu.edu/~archives/ABOLISH/apr02/0648.html) ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2006, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/27 "2006-02-22T15:02:15Z")
Well done! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/28 "2006-02-26T19:50:51Z")
This article contains additional discussion of the issues discussed here. > **[Death and Wal-Mart.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2006/02/death-and-wal-mart.html)** > > No one disputes that there are circumstances in which people have a fundamental right to assert a moral or religious objection to performing... ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/29 "2006-02-26T20:32:04Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > This article contains additional discussion of the issues discussed here. > > [Death and Wal-Mart.](http://www.slate.com/id/2136960/) That article makes some excellent points. But while there some parallels between enabling abortion and enabling execution, we musn’t let decisions about one limit decisions about the other. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/30 "2006-02-26T20:37:26Z")
Yeah. I posted it mainly for the stuff about the death penalty: > [@](#): > > Until last week, only prison employees served as executioners in California. But U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel ruled—in response to an Eighth Amendment challenge to California’s lethal-injection procedure—that physicians or other licensed medical personnel must participate in the execution of rapist and murderer Michael Morales. The judge was troubled by testimony suggesting that prior lethal injections had resulted in excruciating deaths. He ordered that Morales’ execution proceed with a doctor on hand to administer the sedative, and to intervene in the event that Morales woke up or appeared to be in pain. > [@](#): > > State legislatures are scrambling to enact legislation that would either condone or prohibit these professional objections. The California Medical Association is pushing for a bill that would prohibit any physician involvement in executions. Last week, Georgia went the other way, approving a bill to protect any doctor who administers a capital sentence from being sanctioned by the state medical board. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/31 "2006-02-26T23:47:49Z")
What concerns me is that California (and other states) could attempt to pass legislation prohibiting a doctor from refusing to participate in an execution, as they did for the refusal by pharmacists to dispense morning-after pills. Not likely, I’m pretty sure, but given the popular attitude toward the death penalty, who knows. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/32 "2006-02-27T00:19:23Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Doctors aren’t the only ones who can get controlled substances permits from the DEA: chemists, veterinarians, and police also may obtain such permits. [Here’s a partial list of who may obtain them](http://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drugreg/reg_apps/pdf_apps.htm). > > Daniel Maybe I missed it but, I found no where in your link that said police may prescribe scheduled medications. In fact, several of the groups listed are only allowed to handle the medications, as in transfering them from manufacturer to pharmacy, not despense them. If I missed something, please set me straight. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409/33 "2006-03-23T19:51:21Z")
There was a segment on NPR about this issue today: [http://www.here-now.org/shows/2006/03/20060323\_2.asp](http://www.here-now.org/shows/2006/03/20060323_2.asp) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-prescription-needed-to-execute/345409.md?page=1)