# No, SEIU, SCOTUS Says You Have to Keep Your Grabby Hands Out of Other People' Pockets! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 21, 2012, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853 "2012-06-21T16:20:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/21 "2012-06-21T17:08:05Z")
That’s what it means. Abortion cases “evade review” becauise they are always moot by the time they are on appeal. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/22 "2012-06-21T17:10:05Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > The court has dealt with mootness a few times. It was an issue in Roe v. Wade. They don’t seem to look kindly on denying someone the right to appeal through the court just because some circumstance of the case changes. Particularly if the situation is likely to continually repeat itself. > > Right smart of them to deal with the matter while it was on their table. Roe v. Wade’s case became moot through the natural operation of biology. Knox v. SEIU was alleged to be moot because, after the Supreme Court agreed to hear the case, SEIU reversed their policy and offered everyone refunds, without agreeing they did anything wrong. I’m curious to hear what our union fans think of that tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/23 "2012-06-21T17:11:17Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Sorry, I should have clarified: I wasn’t thinking about the justices, I was thinking about the atmosphere of the OP. > > I feel that a big part of a reason for it is because of people reacting to, and using, rulings to advance personal political agendas (that’s how we get the justices that get complained about to begin with). I don’t think that celebrating rulings like this as some kind of “smackdown” does the situation any favors. > > (Pardon if my words are a bit fuzzy. Long day yesterday.) If a smackdown doesn’t exist on these facts… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/24 "2012-06-21T17:12:19Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Big deal. It was a piddly case about giving notice to non-members about the political portion of fees, which they already have a right to opt out of. > > I don’t get all this anti-union stuff. Why do people think it’s progress to make sure other workers make less just because they do? Well, again, in this particular instance I think the union’s conduct is outrageous. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/25 "2012-06-21T17:21:46Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, again, in this particular instance I think the union’s conduct is outrageous. Okay, somebody acted outrageously and a court made them stop. Happens every day. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/26 "2012-06-21T17:26:03Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, of course. And what do you think of SEIU’s attempt to moot the case? (Which, in truth, is really the reason for my glee: seeing that shot down). Putting the lid on the cookie jar and saying, “Hello mum, how are you?” when caught works sometimes. I guess not this time. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/27 "2012-06-21T18:10:48Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Okay, somebody acted outrageously and a court made them stop. > > Happens every day. Not “somebody.” A union. SEIU Local 1000. The union acted outrageously. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/28 "2012-06-21T18:11:56Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Putting the lid on the cookie jar and saying, “Hello mum, how are you?” when caught works sometimes. I guess not this time. No biggie? In your view, is this the kind of thing unions do a lot, or was this an unusual case – you know, with the cookie jar and being caught. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/29 "2012-06-21T18:14:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No biggie? In your view, is this the kind of thing unions do a lot, or was this an unusual case – you know, with the cookie jar and being caught. The right to opt out was already there. The union simply failed to honor it. In other words, I’m saying the union was clearly wrong. On the other hand, what they were wrong about wasn’t a big deal. It’s not exactly earth-shattering legal news. It should have been settled long before getting to the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/30 "2012-06-21T18:17:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > [http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-1121c4d6.pdf](http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/10-1121c4d6.pdf) (obvious PDF is obvious) > > 7-2 for the result > > Breyer and Kagan dissented. I fully expect the leftist Doper outrage that two Supreme Court Justices voted on purely political grounds without regard to legal basis in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/31 "2012-06-21T18:18:15Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I don’t get all this anti-union stuff. Why do people think it’s progress to make sure other workers make less just because they do? This. This was my thought upon reading Brickers yippee here, as well as an entirely different thread today. It’s not a new thought - What’s the Matter with Kansas has been around for a while, for example. It’s just stunning to me how so many people have bought into a moral framing of issues that does nothing but weaken their own positions, ultimately. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/32 "2012-06-21T18:26:04Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This. This was my thought upon reading Brickers yippee here, as well as an entirely different thread today. It’s not a new thought - What’s the Matter with Kansas has been around for a while, for example. It’s just stunning to me how so many people have bought into a moral framing of issues that does nothing but weaken their own positions, ultimately. This cartoon sums it up: [http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2011/02/19/12/110220pettC.aurora\_standalone.prod\_affiliate.79.jpg](http://media.kentucky.com/smedia/2011/02/19/12/110220pettC.aurora_standalone.prod_affiliate.79.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/33 "2012-06-21T18:34:42Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > This. This was my thought upon reading Brickers yippee here, as well as an entirely different thread today. It’s not a new thought - What’s the Matter with Kansas has been around for a while, for example. It’s just stunning to me how so many people have bought into a moral framing of issues that does nothing but weaken their own positions, ultimately. It’s immoral to force people to pay you money for political lobbying. Hentor. The fact that the union was stopped from doing that does not weaken my own position in the slightest. And it’s absolutely hilarious to watch the process of selecting an argument… \*Hmmm, can’t say it was a political decision, because 2 of the liberals would get criticized… can’t say it was all that bad, becaue the conduct was so outrageous… have to settle for a sorrowful lament about unions in general, and hope I can get the conversation away from the specifics. \* ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/34 "2012-06-21T18:37:19Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > The right to opt out was already there. The union simply failed to honor it. In other words, I’m saying the union was clearly wrong. On the other hand, what they were wrong about wasn’t a big deal. It’s not exactly earth-shattering legal news. It should have been settled long before getting to the Supreme Court. You are right, I wonder why the union drug it out so long? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/35 "2012-06-21T18:40:13Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > You are right, I wonder why the union drug it out so long? I wonder why the Ninth Circuit said the union should be allowed to do it? Does anyone want to defend those judges? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/36 "2012-06-21T18:40:37Z")
> [@Kearsen](#): > > You are right, I wonder why the union drug it out so long? They were getting paid by the hour. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/37 "2012-06-21T18:44:27Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s immoral to force people to pay you money for political lobbying. Hentor. The fact that the union was stopped from doing that does not weaken my own position in the slightest… But if you pay for health insurance, and the money doesn’t go to providing coverage, but instead is siphoned off for lobbying and campaign contributions that favor the health insurance industry against your best interests, that’s totally kosher? > [@](#): > > …And it’s absolutely hilarious to watch the process of selecting an argument… \*Hmmm, can’t say it was a political decision, because 2 of the liberals would get criticized… can’t say it was all that bad, becaue the conduct was so outrageous… have to settle for a sorrowful lament about unions in general, and hope I can get the conversation away from the specifics. \* Please submit your Certificate of Telepathy for examination. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/38 "2012-06-21T18:47:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It’s immoral to force people to pay you money for political lobbying. Hentor. The fact that the union was stopped from doing that does not weaken my own position in the slightest. What about when it’s a church? I think we both know that churches routinely abuse political advocacy rules without losing tax exemption. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/39 "2012-06-21T19:06:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But if you pay for health insurance, and the money doesn’t go to providing coverage, but instead is siphoned off for lobbying and campaign contributions that favor the health insurance industry against your best interests, that’s totally kosher? Except you don’t have to buy health insurance. Oh wait, now you do! So yeah, people should not be forced to buy health insurance either. 😉 Actually, it’s just a matter of shopping around. But if you work for MegaCorp, you can’t shop around for different unions. There’s one and only one. > [@RNATB](#): > > What about when it’s a church? I think we both know that churches routinely abuse political advocacy rules without losing tax exemption. Who is forced to join a Church? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853/40 "2012-06-21T19:14:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But if you pay for health insurance, and the money doesn’t go to providing coverage, but instead is siphoned off for lobbying and campaign contributions that favor the health insurance industry against your best interests, that’s totally kosher? Yes. Your company, or you, have every right to decline health insurance, buy your own policy, whatever you like, and still keep your job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-seiu-scotus-says-you-have-to-keep-your-grabby-hands-out-of-other-people-pockets/625853.md?page=3)