# No, she may never know, but it's still not right! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471 "2005-04-15T13:42:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/1 "2005-04-15T13:42:48Z")
On my subway ride in to work this morning, I managed to hear the following snippet of conversation between the woman sitting next to me, the man she was talking to (who was standing in front of her) and the other woman who was sitting next to her on the opposite side. Woman: Can I get a kosher turkey? Man: Sure. Shoprite has them. Woman: Do they taste as good as a regular turkey? Man: Well… Other Woman: Is it because of the salt? Man: That, and they drain them so they come out dry Woman: Do you think she’ll know the difference if I get a regular turkey for Passover instead of a kosher one? Having never compared a kosher turkey with a non-kosher one, I can’t comment on the culinary differences between the two. But that she was willing (it didn’t sound to me like she was kidding) to bring a non-kosher turkey into someone’s house _without their knowledge_ on Passover (or really anytime) just struck me as so wrong. It’s always amazes me how people could be so thoughtless as to put their own personal (in this case, culinary) pleasures for one meal ahead of someone else’s beliefs. (I know. It’s a lame rant. But it’s a subject I care about). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/2 "2005-04-15T13:47:13Z")
Pretty crappy. There’s no excuse for that. I guess the recipient is off the hook religion-wise, but it’s still crappy. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/3 "2005-04-15T13:57:29Z")
Can you cure our ignorance on exactly what “kosher” means, and why salting is necessary? ---
**Author:** ![audiobottle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc8723/32.png) [@audiobottle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/audiobottle)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/4 "2005-04-15T13:59:58Z")
Yeah, that’s pretty ass-ish. I’m sure you can get some delicious kosher turkey at a deli or something instead of taking the lazy way out. Would she serve meat-based soups to a vegetarian friend? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/5 "2005-04-15T14:00:04Z")
Yeah, definitely not cool. On the other hand (well, not really on the other hand, but out of curiousity), why does everything have to be kosher? I mean, kosher salt? Salt is pretty much salt, why does a Jewish person have to get a rabbi’s OK for salt? If I use non-kosher salt, is that bad? Too complicated. What’s the difference between a kosher turkey and a non-kosher turkey? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/6 "2005-04-15T14:00:58Z")
Yeah, that’s a good friend. Does she sneak in just a little beef broth if she’s bringing something to a vegan’s house, too? Or hey! Maybe just a splash of Everclear in the alcoholic’s punch? Blech. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/7 "2005-04-15T14:03:29Z")
Googling produced: [http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm](http://www.jewfaq.org/kashrut.htm) > [@](#): > > The Torah prohibits consumption of blood. Lev. 7:26-27; Lev. 17:10-14. This is the only dietary law that has a reason specified in Torah: we do not eat blood because the life of the animal is contained in the blood. This applies only to the blood of birds and mammals, not to fish blood. Thus, it is necessary to remove all blood from the flesh of kosher animals. > > The first step in this process occurs at the time of slaughter. As discussed above, shechitah allows for rapid draining of most of the blood. > > The remaining blood must be removed, either by broiling or soaking and salting. Liver may only be kashered by the broiling method, because it has so much blood in it and such complex blood vessels. This final process must be completed within 72 hours after slaughter, and before the meat is frozen or ground. Most butchers and all frozen food vendors take care of the soaking and salting for you, but you should always check this when you are buying someplace you are unfamiliar with. > > An egg that contains a blood spot may not be eaten. This isn’t very common, but I find them once in a while. It is a good idea to break an egg into a container and check it before you put it into a heated pan, because if you put a blood-stained egg into a heated pan, the pan becomes non-kosher. And as a vegetarian who has had relatives pass off non-veg food as fine for me to eat, I can angrily sympathize. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/8 "2005-04-15T14:05:39Z")
Deception is always wrong, and one shouldn’t pass off _treyf_ turkey onto your observant Jewish friends. I’m curious, though: in a blind taste test, could one tell the difference? Could you tell if you had consumed meat that had not been slaughtered by a _shochet_? ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/9 "2005-04-15T14:05:48Z")
Also, if you believe the folks at _Cooks Illustrated_ magazine, a kosher turkey is actually tastier than a non-kosher one because of the brining. Far from drying it out, the salt in the koshering process keeps the juices in. As for the friend, I’d take one good enemy over a friend like that – at least a good enemy’s honest. :rolleyes: CJ ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/10 "2005-04-15T14:10:55Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Can you cure our ignorance on exactly what “kosher” means, and why salting is necessary? Religiously correct food. It’s prepared in a certain way and blessed (and the preparation process is monitored). There’s lots more to it, but if you’re a “good” Jew, you only eat Kosher. “Good” can be interpreted in many ways. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/11 "2005-04-15T14:12:30Z")
Thank you **Ferret Herder** 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/12 "2005-04-15T14:16:10Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > Also, if you believe the folks at _Cooks Illustrated_ magazine, a kosher turkey is actually tastier than a non-kosher one because of the brining. Far from drying it out, the salt in the koshering process keeps the juices in. I don’t think koshering and brining are the same thing. Isn’t koshering a dry cure? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/13 "2005-04-15T14:22:16Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > I don’t think koshering and brining are the same thing. Isn’t koshering a dry cure? I believe so, but from my recollection of that _Cook’s Illustrated_ article, I **think** they listed some flavorful/juicy koshered turkey brands, and discouraged brining. ---
**Author:** ![av8rmike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/edb3f5/32.png) [@av8rmike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/av8rmike)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/14 "2005-04-15T14:27:15Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Yeah, definitely not cool. > > On the other hand (well, not really on the other hand, but out of curiousity), why does everything have to be kosher? I mean, kosher salt? Salt is pretty much salt, why does a Jewish person have to get a rabbi’s OK for salt? If I use non-kosher salt, is that bad? Too complicated. Salt is salt, chemically, but kosher salt is not just used in the kashering process. The grind is coarser than table salt, so a lot of chefs use it. It’s easier to “pinch” than table salt, food produced with it tastes more “seasoned” than it does with table salt. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/15 "2005-04-15T14:30:50Z")
So you can tell _treyf_ from _kosher_ by taste? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/16 "2005-04-15T14:35:59Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > So you can tell _treyf_ from _kosher_ by taste? Considering the growing popularity of brining a turkey before roasting, I’d be skeptical - though perhaps someone knowledgeable could taste a non-brined turkey versus a koshered turkey? (Hey, I’m a vegetarian, it’s been a while…) Pity I don’t have that issue handy or I’d consult it. ---
**Author:** ![wonderwench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/35a633/32.png) [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/17 "2005-04-15T14:36:11Z")
> [@Ferret Herder](#): > > I believe so, but from my recollection of that _Cook’s Illustrated_ article, I **think** they listed some flavorful/juicy koshered turkey brands, and discouraged brining. Turkeys that turn out dry are generally overcooked. My tried and tested method (I always purchase a free range turkey that is not injected with sugar/saline solution): - Soak the turkey in a salt (brine) bath for a couple of hours, with plenty of ice cubes to keep the turkey cold. - Remove and pat dry with paper towels. - Rub the breast with room temperature butter and cover the breast portion with foil. The foil slows down the cooking of the breast meat and prevents it from drying out. - For big birds (large family = 20lb+), I cook them at 350 for 12 minutes per pound. Many recipe books say 20 min per pound, but that is for small birds. A sliding scale can be googled up which shows the different recommended levels for various sizes of birds. - Remove the foil from the breast portion about halfway through the estimated cooking time. - Don’t bother basting. It’s a waste of time and juices. - Let the turkey rest for at least 20 minutes before carving. And yes - feeding or beveraging someone with an item that is against his religious, dietary or substance avoidance preferences without his knowledge is bad bad bad. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/18 "2005-04-15T14:39:19Z")
> [@av8rmike](#): > > Salt is salt, chemically, but kosher salt is not just used in the kashering process. The grind is coarser than table salt, so a lot of chefs use it. It’s easier to “pinch” than table salt, food produced with it tastes more “seasoned” than it does with table salt. Yeah, I know that. I use kosher salt in most of my cooking (thanks, AB) and find it easier to season with. But if a Jewish person eats normal table salt, is that a bad thing? ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/19 "2005-04-15T14:44:36Z")
I don’t think there’s any comparison to giving a vegetarian meat, or giving an alcoholic alcohol. There’s is no difference in real and practical terms between kosher chicken and non-kosher chicken. The person eating either are, spices and preparation aside, digesting **exactly** the same substance. The same can’t be said for meat/vegetable, alcoholic/non-alcoholic scenarios. Having said that, giving a friend one thing while lying its another is not something a real friend would do. ---
**Author:** ![wonderwench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/35a633/32.png) [@wonderwench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonderwench)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/20 "2005-04-15T14:46:36Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > I don’t think there’s any comparison to giving a vegetarian meat, or giving an alcoholic alcohol. > > There’s is no difference in real and practical terms between kosher chicken and non-kosher chicken. The person eating either are, spices and preparation aside, digesting **exactly** the same substance. > > The same can’t be said for meat/vegetable, alcoholic/non-alcoholic scenarios. > > Having said that, giving a friend one thing while lying its another is not something a real friend would do. There is a comparison for those whose religious/spiritual health is just as important as their physical one. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471.md?page=2)