# No, she may never know, but it's still not right! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 15, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471 "2005-04-15T13:42:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/61 "2005-04-16T01:55:41Z")
Was it P.J O’Roourke who described koshering as “The ancient Jewish art of removing all the flavor from food?” From what I remember of my grandmother’s cooking, he was spot on. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/62 "2005-04-16T03:18:53Z")
You need a good pastrami on rye. That’s some flavorful sandwich there. Bad Jew here, posting after sundown (my mom hangs her head in shame). I agree that it’s a crappy thing to do. But I’m dead game certain that the vast majority of rabbis would give the consumer a free pass on this one. ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/63 "2005-04-16T04:07:15Z")
I agree that it is a despicable thing to do. It is a betrayal of trust. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/64 "2005-04-16T04:10:35Z")
> [@Jonathan Chance](#): > > You need a good pastrami on rye. That’s some flavorful sandwich there. You got that wrong there, sweetie pie. It’s pastrami _and provolone_ on a crusty roll from that place in Inglwood in NYC. Just a couple of blocks from Maeglin’s place. Yeah, I know it’s mixing dairy and meat. I’m an even worse Jew than you, being that I’m of the lapsed-Catholic flavour. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/65 "2005-04-16T06:14:52Z")
I’ve had kosher turkey and non-kosher turkey for many years. No matter what the preparation I’ve always found the kosher turkey to be of far superior taste. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/66 "2005-04-16T12:02:51Z")
> [@audiobottle](#): > > Would she serve meat-based soups to a vegetarian friend? I’ve known a couple people in my life who would do just that. Some from laziness and some from stupidity/ignorance and some just because they’re mean bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/67 "2005-04-16T17:24:02Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > \As for the juiciest turkey I’ve had, for the past two years at Thanksgiving, my family’s had deep-fried ones. Yes, it sounds outlandish, but it takes much less time to cook and is very tasty turkey, even when produced by non-cooks like my family. It may be heresy, but it’s _tasty_ heresy! 😃 > > CJ I’ve heard great things about deep-fried turkeys, too. I thought I would just give a quick warning about how dangerous doing this can be. If you can, deep-fry it outside for less chance of burning your house down. Also, half-fill the deep fryer with oil, put your turkey still in the plastic wrap in it (before heating the oil, of course), and fill the rest of it to get an idea of how much oil the turkey will displace. Then take the turkey out and prepare it. [/deep-frying safety hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/68 "2005-04-16T18:02:15Z")
As an alcoholic who has been served drinks containing alcohol on several occasions despite specific orders to the contrary, I can say that I tasted the difference immediately and _stopped drinking it_. It’s too bad that kosher isn’t so different from non-kosher that the taste wouldn’t immediately tip you off. But to the point of the OP- that is just shitty. Beyond shitty, actually. And there ARE people in this world who will serve an alcoholic alcohol, just for fun or because they think it’ll help you relax. :rolleyes: I have found that with some people, you have to call it an allergy, and describe your reaction as something similar to allergic people who eat strawberries, peanuts or fish, complete with the hives and breathing difficulty. That usually shuts 'em up. [Red A.] Whenever I drink, I break out in spots. Spots like Acapulco, Las Vegas… [/Red A.] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/69 "2005-04-17T02:23:47Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > It sounds like I would like kosher foods. I love dry turkey. The drier the better. I smother mine with gravy. I also like my beef cooked extra well done — enough to have a crispy coating. I smother it with steak sauce or mustard or what-have-you. Okay, **Lib** , you know, without a doubt, this is probably the worst offense you have EVER admitted to on this board. Eeeeewww!!! I do like my poultry thoroughly cooked (my dad tends to grill chicken so it’s still pink!!!), but when it comes to my beef, I want that steak practically mooing at the table. (Seered on the outside, dripping and pink in the middle, baby). Okay, some questions: First, does the prohibition against blood mean that a steak cooked medium rare isn’t kosher? Also, I’ve heard that the kosher slaughtering practices result in a much slower, more painful death of the animal. But I’ve also heard the exact opposite. What’s the deal? ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/70 "2005-04-17T03:07:08Z")
That’s not a nice thing to do. However, if you’re strict about following whatever dietary laws you choose, then you have to take some responsibility. If I’m at a a gathering hosted by a non-vegetarian, I stick to things I _know_ are meat-free. It’s called “not expected everyone else in the world to cater to your specific choices.” ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/71 "2005-04-17T03:38:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I’ve known a couple people in my life who would do just that. Some from laziness and some from stupidity/ignorance and some just because they’re mean bastards. I still suffer ‘4 a.m.-remember-every-stupid-thing-you-ever-did’ guilt pangs because I served a vegetarian friend a dish seasoned with a dab of Worchestershire sauce. I hadn’t gotten the knack of reading labels on _everything_ and didn’t realize until way too late that it wasn’t suitable. I confessed later, grovelling all the way, and she was very nice about it but shit, what an abuse of trust and hospitality. Deliberately sandbagging anybody, friend or acquaintance, that way is despicable. [rant] The damned _point_ of hospitality isn’t the food, it’s the people sharing food. I learned my lesson late, and at my gracious friend’s expense, but if a guest is worth having as a guest in the first place, he/she’s worth asking first about food needs. Then adapt from there. Most people really don’t follow food guidelines as a passive aggressive tactic to make life tough for other people. And IME most of 'em are more than willing, even eager, to show respect when it’s shown to them. I’m _not_ conversant with every nuance of various dietary restrictions. It took me a while to learn that vegetarian doesn’t just mean no meat. Vegan, ovo-lacto, etc. aren’t descriptors that jump right out at onlookers. Same goes with religious observances. It was news to me that keeping kosher can extend to cookware and dishes used for meat and dairy. There’s no way I could prepare a legitimate meal under those conditions but there are alternatives, y’know? Two friends quietly keep strict kosher, but both of 'em are _very_ flexible–if given a fair chance–about adapting in turn. (The biggest problem is keeping them from bowing out for ‘being too much trouble’.) Some tips on brands/marks to look for in side munchables, buying stuff from the local kosher deli–the food rocks–and serving on good quality disposable plates and the thing is done. The food’s good, the company’s good, and other people don’t realize, much less care, that everything is kosher. It’s obscene to degrade the essence of hospitality by obsessing over details before the people involved. [/rant] Veb ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/72 "2005-04-17T04:00:00Z")
> [@The Devil's Grandmother](#): > > Actually, if the person in question has been a vegetarian for some years, or from birth like some of my hippie-raised friends, meat \*will \* make them sick. No, I don’t have a site so this is anecdotal information, but I’ve seen it happen. It happens to me. I’ve been a vegetarian for over a decade, and unknowingly eating meat will make me vomit after a couple hours, or at least have severe abdominal upset and other digestive issues. The explanation given to me was that you stop making sufficient levels of particular enzymes used in meat digestion, once you’ve been a vegetarian for a few years or something, and thus you have problems with eating meat. And yes, I’ve gotten sick **before** learning of the meat. It’s happened from me not reading a label on a package of “vegetable” egg rolls (contained chicken fat and broth), and from in-laws trying to slip me meat, telling about it only after I started throwing up. ---
**Author:** ![GilaB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@GilaB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GilaB)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/73 "2005-04-17T04:21:26Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > That’s not a nice thing to do. However, if you’re strict about following whatever dietary laws you choose, then you have to take some responsibility. If I’m at a a gathering hosted by a non-vegetarian, I stick to things I _know_ are meat-free. It’s called “not expected everyone else in the world to cater to your specific choices.” I’ve _never_ asked people to prepare kosher food for me. I make my own arrangements, don’t eat, or turn down invitations so as not to be a burden. But if somebody **lied** to me, I don’t think that I’d be the one in the wrong. I don’t even think I’d be guilty of expecting the world to cater to my preferences. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/74 "2005-04-17T21:20:27Z")
> [@GilaB](#): > > I’ve _never_ asked people to prepare kosher food for me. I make my own arrangements, don’t eat, or turn down invitations so as not to be a burden. But if somebody **lied** to me, I don’t think that I’d be the one in the wrong. I don’t even think I’d be guilty of expecting the world to cater to my preferences. Your opinion, and you’re entitled to it. My opinion is that I have no reason to assume that, if someone volunteers and says, sure, I’ll cater to your specific preferences, that they got it right. I guess it has to do with how much you trust people and how important it is to you that you maintain your preferences. IMO, the situation in the OP is comprable to someone who, say, hates onions and won’t eat anything with oninons in it. It’s not comprable to someone who’s actually going to be harmed by consuming that food (e.g., someone who’s been a vegetarian for a long time or someone with food allergies). ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/75 "2005-04-18T00:56:02Z")
> [@Mr. Excellent](#): > > I’d like to expand on this point. It’s worth mentioning that, if memory serves, kosher meat must be slaughtered in the most painless way practicable. In other words, one can be reasonably sure that kosher-slaughtered animals were not subjected to unneccsessary cruelty. If you’re not a vegetarian, but prefer that one’s meat be treated humanely before it’s Shuffled Off This Mortal Coil, that could be significant - just as a vegetarian might find it morally objectionable to eat meat at all. I’m pretty sure that about the only big difference in slaughter is that they just cut their throat without bothering to stun them first unlike non-Kosher meat where they’re stunned first. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471/76 "2005-04-18T01:24:20Z")
Have we estabished here, beyond a reasonable doubt, that a kosher turkey is indistinquishable from a treyf turkey? Because I cannot stand dry turkey. If either one is prone to cooking dry, I wanna know, 'cause I’m getting the other one from now on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-she-may-never-know-but-its-still-not-right/299471.md?page=3)