# No Shirt, No Shoes, No DICE! **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2009, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497 "2009-09-25T09:25:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bamboo\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@Bamboo\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bamboo_Boy)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/1 "2009-09-25T09:25:19Z")
I posted this question here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11571231#post11571231](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11571231#post11571231) but the spark never ignited over there, so I am going to try again here. I have wondered about this almost as long as I can remember- I remember seeing signs at establishments reading “No shirt, No shoes, No dice.” No shirt, I get, No shoes, I understand…but “no dice”? What do they mean? No playing craps? No backgammon/Monopoly, but Sorry! would be OK? It’s also one of my favorite line from Fast Times at Ridgemont High! It’s the way Spicoli says “…No DICE?!!” that totally cracks me up. Enlighten me! Thank you, BB ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/2 "2009-09-25T10:11:00Z")
It’s originally a term from craps meaning that the dice bounced outside the allowed area, so it’s an invalid throw. It has come to mean “No way!”. So in this case, the sign you mentions means that under no circumstance will they allow someone not wearing shoes or shirt to enter: [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/no\_dice](http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/no_dice) ---
**Author:** ![JFLuvly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ac91a4/32.png) [@JFLuvly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JFLuvly)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/3 "2009-09-25T14:23:17Z")
OK, but why. Surely bare feet would not be any worse on the floor of a convenience store than dirty shoes, it’s not like some one is touching stuff with there feet. No shirt makes no sense to me at all, does it mean women with a bikini top are not allowed? Is this some sociological thing from the 30’s to 60’s? I had a pic of a sign in a bar that said: MEN, No Shirt, No Service WOMEN, No Shirt, Free Beer ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/4 "2009-09-25T14:28:38Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > OK, but why. Surely bare feet would not be any worse on the floor of a convenience store than dirty shoes, it’s not like some one is touching stuff with there feet. No shirt makes no sense to me at all, does it mean women with a bikini top are not allowed? Is this some sociological thing from the 30’s to 60’s? I don’t think that dirty shoes are as unsanitary as dirty feet - one has a much greater propensity to be a biohazard than the other, and most of the times you see these signs is in the context of establishments that deal with food. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/5 "2009-09-25T14:46:12Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I don’t think that dirty shoes are as unsanitary as dirty feet - one has a much greater propensity to be a biohazard than the other, and most of the times you see these signs is in the context of establishments that deal with food. Shoes are arguably less sanitary than barefeet, because human skin has many [antimicrobial properties](http://www.jlr.org/cgi/reprint/R700016-JLR200v1.pdf) (PDF): > [@](#): > > The skin surface represents our interface with the external environment, and as such, is our first line of defense against microbial colonization and infection. Lipids at the skin surface are thought to underlie at least part of an antimicrobial barrier. Some of these lipids are synthesized in the epidermis and are carried to the surface as cells differentiate, while others are secreted onto the surface from the sebaceous glands. > > One such group, free sphingoid bases, are known to have broad antimicrobial activity, and our previous studies demonstrate their presence at the skin surface. Free sphingoid bases may be generated by enzymatic hydrolysis of epidermal ceramides. In addition, our preliminary results demonstrate potent antibacterial activity associated with two specific fatty acids derived from sebaceous triglycerides. > > Most remarkably, one of these fatty acids (sapienic acid, C16:1Δ6) in combination with a low concentration of ethanol is very effective against methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA). In fact, this combination was far more effective than mupirocin with or without ethanol. Mupirocin is a “gold standard” for activity against MRSA. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/6 "2009-09-25T14:53:21Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Shoes are arguably less sanitary than barefeet, because human skin has many [antimicrobial properties](http://www.jlr.org/cgi/reprint/R700016-JLR200v1.pdf) (PDF): A shoe is less likely to have a blister or open wound on it which contains infectious pus. So no, shoes are arguably not less sanitary than bare feet. One specific pair of shoes may be less sanitary than one specific set of feet, but if you had to decide which one to allow and which to exclude, which would you choose? would you really endorse a sign that said “no shirt? shoes? no service!” ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/7 "2009-09-25T15:07:09Z")
I never thought these signs existed as a hygienic measure, but rather as what the proprietor thinks is a socially acceptable dress code for the establishment. Granted, for something like a gas station I would not expect “Business casual only!”, but requiring shoes and a shirt seems appropriate. Everyone has to have their standards! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/8 "2009-09-25T15:08:55Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > would you really endorse a sign that said “no shirt? shoes? no service!” I would, because it transmits less disease. But, since sanitation is not the purpose of the sign, it doesn’t make much difference. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/9 "2009-09-25T15:08:40Z")
> [@Driver8](#): > > I never thought these signs existed as a hygienic measure, but rather as what the proprietor thinks is a socially acceptable dress code for the establishment. > > Granted, for something like a gas station I would not expect “Business casual only!”, but requiring shoes and a shirt seems appropriate. Everyone has to have their standards! i believe the requirements usually stem from local health codes. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/10 "2009-09-25T15:09:09Z")
Usually the signs I’ve seen say “No shirt, no shoes, no service” ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/11 "2009-09-25T15:10:28Z")
Well i was once politely asked to leave a liquor store as I wasn’t wearing any shoes, when I asked the guy, he told me that it was a health and safety regulation. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/12 "2009-09-25T17:32:45Z")
Shoes: safety issue. Sanitary issues aside, shoes protect feet from injury. Most workplaces require employees wear shoes for this reason, and many OSHA-type regulations require them in workplaces. Requiring customers to have them makes similar sense. Shoes and shirt: Simple common decency. We don’t go around topless and shoeless and engage in public activities like eating and drinking at a restaurant/bar/fast food joint. It is usually these types of establishments which make the request, and usually because they are in the vicinity of some place where people engage in activity that doesn’t involve a shirt or shoes (such as being near a beach or pool). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/13 "2009-09-25T18:55:46Z")
> [@JFLuvly](#): > > I had a pic of a sign in a bar that said: > > MEN, > No Shirt, No Service > > WOMEN, > > No Shirt, Free Beer I’ve spent much time at the [Sunset Beachbar](http://www.sunsetbeachbar.com/) in St Martin (near the airport). They have a sign about topless women drinking free. I’ve seen plenty of free drinks poured. I even _once_ saw an attractive woman getting a free drink! ---
**Author:** ![Bamboo\_Boy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@Bamboo\_Boy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bamboo_Boy)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/14 "2009-09-26T18:20:23Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > Usually the signs I’ve seen say “No shirt, no shoes, no service” I would say that of recent I have had the same experience. Back in the 70s I remember seeing the “No dice” signs. Even if it DOES mean that craps thing, what does the sign in totality mean? Just the same as “No shoes, no shirt, no service”? IOW if you lack either a shirt or shoes you will not be served? So in effect “No dice” means something like “No deal; all bets are off”. This also dissolved into a barefoot discussion!.. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/15 "2009-09-27T12:55:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I would, because it transmits less disease. But, since sanitation is not the purpose of the sign, it doesn’t make much difference. It doesn’t transmit less disease! If 6 people walk in with nasty disgusting shoes, no disease will be transmitted to the guys walking in with clean shoes. But if 6 people walk in with nasty, fungus-covered feet, guess what happens to the people walking in with clean, bare feet? This is why you should wear flip-flops or sandles when using a public showers or going to water parks. All those people walking around barefoot spreads disease. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/16 "2009-09-27T12:59:37Z")
I assume the “no dice” is equivalent to “no service.” Also, I’ve always assumed that “no shoes” wasn’t necessarily to keep the floors clean or about health directly, but to avoid lawsuits and hassels. Restaurant floors can easily have broken glass, the bathroom floors are not cleaned after every patron (some males miss the toilet or dribble), etc. Plus, I think it’s upsetting to other patrons to look at someone’s bare chest or bare feet while eating. [sub]Well, I suppose it depends on the chest, perhaps. But you can see that a policy that allowed only beautiful torsos to be shirtless would have awkward implications, you don’t want the waitperson telling a guy that his chest is too ugly to be seen. Drives away potential customers.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/17 "2009-09-27T17:09:44Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > i believe the requirements usually stem from local health codes. I was at a hotel in Las Vegas and was made to go back to my room to put shoes on for the 20" walk through the lobby to get to the pool. Seems that in Clark County, it is illegal to be inside a casino with no shoes. ---
**Author:** ![runcible\_spoon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc29f/32.png) [@runcible\_spoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runcible_spoon)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/18 "2009-09-27T20:57:30Z")
Ok, so is the no shirt part also a health-code issue, or was it just a case of making a sign, might as well throw in the shirt? ---
**Author:** ![Booker57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Booker57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Booker57)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/19 "2009-09-28T00:17:33Z")
Shoes and shirts required. Bras and pantys optional. ---
**Author:** ![kornbln](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/838e76/32.png) [@kornbln](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kornbln)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497/20 "2009-09-30T08:42:38Z")
What actually constitutes a shirt? Is a tank top acceptable? What about one of those tank tops that guys wear to work out? The ones with the open arm pits that go all the way down to their thighs? Where do they draw the line? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-dice/511497.md?page=2)