# "No shirt, no shoes, no service" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 8, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375 "2015-09-08T20:23:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/1 "2015-09-08T20:23:26Z")
We’ve all seen those signs. I’ve idly wondered sometimes how many people have tested those. There’s a certain type of person who loves to abide by the letter of the law while gutting the spirit of the law and tossing it aside like a rag doll. And those signs don’t specify the **type** of shirt. . . . If you were in a store or restaurant, and a woman came in wearing a sheer shirt, with nothing underneath it, she would certainly be abiding by the letter. Let us stipulate that (A), she is an adult, and (B), there is no law prohibiting her behavior. If you were a customer, what would you think? What if you were the manager? Would it depend on the circumstances? (For example, whether there are any children around.) Not all sheer shirts are alike. Here are three examples. (May or may not SFW, depending.) [SPOILER][http://www.forever21.com/images/1\_front\_330/00067655-03.jpg](http://www.forever21.com/images/1_front_330/00067655-03.jpg) [http://picxin.mobile21cn.com/pic/all/justinyrd/BQ0027/BQ0027MR.jpg](http://picxin.mobile21cn.com/pic/all/justinyrd/BQ0027/BQ0027MR.jpg) [http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81C8J3C3O7L.\_UY500\_.jpg[/SPOILER]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/81C8J3C3O7L._UY500_.jpg%5B/SPOILER%5D) ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/2 "2015-09-08T20:30:55Z")
All of those women are welcome in my store. Hell, I don’t even have a store, and they make me want to open one so that I can not refuse to allow them to enter. On a more serious note, I’ve worked in several retail stores where I had to ask customers to leave because of no shirt or shoes. In literally every single case, it was gross redneck men. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/3 "2015-09-08T20:37:14Z")
I think such laws and regulations have been tested once or twice. By (possibly anecdotal) tradition, Poe was supposedly thrown out of West Point when the order of the day specified “white gloves and belts” - and he showed up for formation wearing only white gloves and belt. I was thrown out of a movie theater on a hot summer night because I was barefoot. No one including the manager could give me a solid reason for the rule, even when it meant six of us left (with refunds). ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/4 "2015-09-08T20:44:44Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I was thrown out of a movie theater on a hot summer night because I was barefoot. No one including the manager could give me a solid reason for the rule, even when it meant six of us left (with refunds). They were right to throw you out. That’s disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/5 "2015-09-08T20:49:38Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I was thrown out of a movie theater on a hot summer night because I was barefoot. I’m horrified on your behalf. Movie theater floors are disgusting. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/6 "2015-09-08T20:56:19Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > I’m horrified on your behalf. Movie theater floors are disgusting. :eek: Right? At least they clean the floors of the elephant enclosure at the zoo. Movie theater floors? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/7 "2015-09-08T21:02:20Z")
“We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.” Not always posted, but always implied. I used to work in a small grocery/liquor store near a college campus. Sometimes I would be mopping the floors right before closing time, and I would see barefoot prints going down an aisle I had just mopped. Very annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/8 "2015-09-08T21:03:50Z")
Shrug. It’s up to the management. If they want to throw you out for wearing a hat – or for not wearing a hat – that’s their right. I don’t much give a hang. If it’s an ice-cream parlor right near the beach, I’d be surprised if they were fussy about men in swim-trunks. If it’s a five-star restaurant downtown, they can throw you out if you aren’t wearing a formal dinner jacket. To that degree, it’s a free market, and every manager gets to make up his own rules. Now…try to keep someone out because they’re wearing a yarmulke, and you’re looking at serious trouble. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/9 "2015-09-08T21:06:45Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > They were right to throw you out. That’s disgusting. Yeah, you’re right. What \*could \*I have been thinking (at 25) - tracking in from all the freshly scrubbed streets and sidewalks and parks (with dirt and grass and _worms_, ew!) to a nice clean theater floor. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/10 "2015-09-08T21:10:58Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > There’s a certain type of person who loves to abide by the letter of the law while gutting the spirit of the law and tossing it aside like a rag doll. Those are the people who’d be wearing _nothing but_ shirt & shoes. Is “no shirt, no shoes, no service” store policy, or is it a law/health regulation? ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/11 "2015-09-08T21:16:42Z")
Doesn’t say a thing about pants. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/12 "2015-09-08T21:21:13Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Is “no shirt, no shoes, no service” store policy, or is it a law/health regulation? It’s typically from city health regs for places that serve food. May be embedded in some state laws as well. I suppose a place that doesn’t want shirtless customers could put it up as well - as short of selective enforcement (racism, etc.) businesses have a “right to refuse service to anyone.” ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/13 "2015-09-08T21:52:36Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > Doesn’t say a thing about pants. I restaurant near where I went to school specifically said, “No shirt, no shoes, no service – No pants, no problem”. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/14 "2015-09-08T21:53:09Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > On a more serious note, I’ve worked in several retail stores where I had to ask customers to leave because of no shirt or shoes. In literally every single case, it was gross redneck men. I’ve had _one_ person in the last 15 years enter my business shirtless. It was a twenty-something male. A female employee approached me and told me she was uncomfortable. I told him he had to leave. He pointed out I didn’t have a sign. I shrugged and said I never needed one till that day. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/15 "2015-09-08T21:55:04Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Yeah, you’re right. What \*could \*I have been thinking (at 25) - tracking in from all the freshly scrubbed streets and sidewalks and parks (with dirt and grass and _worms_, ew!) to a nice clean theater floor. 🙂 You misunderstand. What’s gross is what you will track OUT of the theater. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/16 "2015-09-08T22:14:03Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Yeah, you’re right. What \*could \*I have been thinking (at 25) - tracking in from all the freshly scrubbed streets and sidewalks and parks (with dirt and grass and _worms_, ew!) to a nice clean theater floor. 🙂 If I were the manager I’d probably say it was because of ‘insurance’. Scare quotes or not, that would be true. If you step on something in my theater and slice your foot open (or even if someone steps on your foot and breaks a bone), my insurance is going to cover it and my rates will go up. Put some shoes on. Besides, no one wants to see your feet. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/17 "2015-09-08T22:23:52Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s typically from city health regs for places that serve food. May be embedded in some state laws as well. I don’t honestly know that it is. I’ve never gone looking for it, but just quickly searching through WI’s food code, I don’t see it. If it was a law, it be easy enough to cite that for why you have to put your shoes back on (“hey man, you’re arguing with the wrong person, go talk to the health inspector” I’ve had that conversation a few times over the years). I think, like I said before, no one wants to see you without your shirt or shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/18 "2015-09-08T22:29:16Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s typically from city health regs for places that serve food. May be embedded in some state laws as well. > > I suppose a place that doesn’t want shirtless customers could put it up as well - as short of selective enforcement (racism, etc.) businesses have a “right to refuse service to anyone.” Have you ever had plantars warts? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/19 "2015-09-08T22:33:08Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Yeah, you’re right. What \*could \*I have been thinking (at 25) - tracking in from all the freshly scrubbed streets and sidewalks and parks (with dirt and grass and _worms_, ew!) to a nice clean theater floor. 🙂 Hell, I wouldn’t let you in my house barefoot. I’d be fine with it if you wore socks, though. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2015, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375/20 "2015-09-08T22:54:43Z")
_Ahem_ All this is very interesting, but I can’t help noticing that the discussion has wandered away from the point that I was making. It might help to split things into food and non-food areas. I can conceive that a non-food retail store might post one of those signs in an effort to keep things on a certain level of decorum. A woman such as in my OP certainly meets the technical requirements of such a sign, but does not meet the unstated condition that the sign is trying to enforce. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-shirt-no-shoes-no-service/730375.md?page=2)