# No smoking anywhere on a large corporate campus **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 9, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209 "2017-05-09T18:04:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/21 "2017-05-09T20:06:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Uhm… private property? Would you say the same thing if you were at a neighbor’s house for a party? Say they had 3 acres, and were clear about a no smoking policy on their property. You’d say “fuck 'em” and go light up anyway? > > Even if you couldn’t smell anything, smokers routinely leave butts (aka, trash) on the ground and the further they are out in “the fields” the greater a fire hazard they are. > > But the bottom line is, your property, your rules. Don’t like the rules, don’t go on the property. Sure. Unless the property owner says it’s _okay_ to smoke, but the government has other ideas… The fact is, some property rules are stupid. For example, stores that don’t have public restrooms are asking for someone to piss in the parking lot. Factually, businesses don’t have to provide restrooms to their customers, but if they don’t, I’m not going to care very much if someone breaks the rules. That’s what you get for having stupid rules. And yeah, if someone is such a dick that someone smoking half a mile away from them is an issue, I wouldn’t be friends with them. But if I were forced to be there for whatever reason, I’d have no qualms smoking far away from their house on their 3 acres. If they made an issue out of it, I’d smoke in the street next to their house, which is much closer and not their property. Maybe that makes me a dick, too, but only in response to their initial dickishness. Yeah, the butts are a problem, but we had no issues in the Army allowing smokers to exist while keeping butts off the ground. When I smoked in the Army I’d come home with a pocket full of butts to throw away, because that’s how the Army rolls. They didn’t have to ban an entire class of people from the military because litter is ugly, they just banned littering. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/22 "2017-05-09T20:09:21Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What do they do about non-employees (UPS driver, delivery people, plumber, electrician, etc)? Admittedly an extreme case-post 9. And 17. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/23 "2017-05-09T20:16:36Z")
> [@Dahnlor](#): > > It wouldn’t surprise me if productivity was also a factor. In many workplaces where smokers are allowed to go outside for a cigarette, they effectively get more break time than their non-smoking co-workers. I’ve even heard of people who started smoking in order to get the extra smoke-breaks. The good solution would be not to stop breaks for smokers, but to have 5 min breaks every hour for all employees - as doctors recommend esp. for people sitting in front of a PC all day: stretch your body to get blood flowing, rest your eyes. The other factor is the inofficial grapevine: if everybody, or at least the secretary of the boss, smokes, information can be shared informally. If nobody, or almost nobody, smokes, you’d need an informal water cooler/ coffee meeting to achieve the same purpose. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/24 "2017-05-09T20:18:12Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Our local hospital has a “no smoking on campus” policy. > > The thousands of of cigarette butts on the grounds show that it is not enforced. > > We also have a general “no smoking within X metres of doorways and air intakes,” which is widely flouted on rainy days. This. If smokers can’t show the courtesy towards others of putting the butts where they belong, and not blowing their smoke near the doorways where non-smokers suffer - then the rules need to be strict. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/25 "2017-05-09T20:18:31Z")
Corporations can have all kinds of policies about behavior on the premises. No alcohol. No racial slurs. No sexual harrassment. No littering. No pets. No loud boom boxes. No soliciting. No inappropriate apparel. No gambling. No loud farts. No smoking. Which of those are over the line, and which are not? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/26 "2017-05-09T20:47:15Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > What do they do about non-employees (UPS driver, delivery people, plumber, electrician, etc)? The same as with non-employees who try to bring firearms onto the site, or non-employees who try to enter the site while intoxicated or otherwise impaired, or non-employees who won’t wear the company-mandated fire-resistant clothing (FRCs) + safety glasses + safety shoes – security escorts them offsite, and if they are disruptive the police are called. And if they’re representing a business (e.g., truck drivers on site to pick up or deliver), their employer is called. If the problem recurs, they are not allowed back on site again. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/27 "2017-05-09T21:05:09Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Our local hospital has a “no smoking on campus” policy. > > The thousands of of cigarette butts on the grounds show that it is not enforced. My hospital has a similar policy, and I hardly ever see discarded cigarette butts. Some visitors and patients are discouraged from lighting up. The policy is also intended to prevent smoking by employees that endangers others, and to make a statement about smoking hazards in general. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/28 "2017-05-09T21:22:45Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Corporations can have all kinds of policies about behavior on the premises. No alcohol. No racial slurs. No sexual harrassment. No littering. No pets. No loud boom boxes. No soliciting. No inappropriate apparel. No gambling. No loud farts. No smoking. > > Which of those are over the line, and which are not? None, really, presuming the only “punishment” is “leave” and not “if we catch you smoking, we put you in the basement dungeon for a week”. But how far do you expect to get when your rule is that “no one can have a cellphone in their possession” for example? Or “No eating four hours prior to entering the premises”? Some rules are stupid, unenforceable and misguided. Might as well ask people not to breathe, for all the good it will do. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/29 "2017-05-09T21:23:08Z")
Completely fair. And very sensible. And I’m always a little taken aback that a policy like this is even a smidgen controversial. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/30 "2017-05-09T21:43:00Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > That’s when you break the rules. It’s one thing to ban smoking indoors or within sniffing distance of an entrance. But banning smoking outdoors over acres of grassy fields and parking lots is just silly and, frankly, unenforceable. Do you think they have smoke narcs roaming the parking lots looking for the odd smoker on his lunch break listening to the radio and getting a few puffs in? > > Nope, the policy and associated signage is just another reminder that you’re bad, and you deserve to feel bad, because you participate in a habit that others find offensive. And the flip side is that the employer and non-smoking employees get to feel wholesome and good, and they deserve to feel better than other, lesser people, like you, who, remember, is bad. > > Fuck 'em, is what I say. And I’m not even a smoker. I don’t know if I would call them narcs, but uniformed security officers have pulled me over TWICE on client sites because I was using an e-cig in my car as I drove off campus. That’s right…I got in my car, pulled out of the parking area, and started to use my e-cig in my personal car (with the windows rolled up) as I drove towards the main road. I got the flashing lights in my rear view within a couple minutes. These clients did not manufacture anything at all on the sites, much less anything flammable. I received a warning each time and was told that I had “agreed” to the restriction when I received my contractor ID badge. I went back and checked all the paperwork and I sure can’t see anything like that, other than a general statement about following the companies’ safety policies while on-campus. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/31 "2017-05-09T21:47:21Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > I don’t know if I would call them narcs, but uniformed security officers have pulled me over TWICE on client sites because I was using an e-cig in my car as I drove off campus. That’s right…I got in my car, pulled out of the parking area, and started to use my e-cig in my personal car (with the windows rolled up) as I drove towards the main road. I got the flashing lights in my rear view within a couple minutes. These clients did not manufacture anything at all on the sites, much less anything flammable. I received a warning each time and was told that I had “agreed” to the restriction when I received my contractor ID badge. I went back and checked all the paperwork and I sure can’t see anything like that, other than a general statement about following the companies’ safety policies while on-campus. If you didn’t find it - have you written to the head office and asked for an explanation/ clarification? There might be other safety rules (with real reasons) not clearly spelled out, either, then. Or lack of communication between the security force and the head management. I could understand stopping you because an e-cig looks similar to a real cig, but letting you go once they understand. Or if fire / sparks are the safety problem, an e-cig might emit sparks in unusual circumstances (I don’t know, but cellphones might be a problem at gas stations with sparks, unlikely, but not impossible). ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/32 "2017-05-09T21:54:17Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > That’s when you break the rules. It’s one thing to ban smoking indoors or within sniffing distance of an entrance. But banning smoking outdoors over acres of grassy fields and parking lots is just silly and, frankly, unenforceable. Do you think they have smoke narcs roaming the parking lots looking for the odd smoker on his lunch break listening to the radio and getting a few puffs in? > > Nope, the policy and associated signage is just another reminder that you’re bad, and you deserve to feel bad, because you participate in a habit that others find offensive. And the flip side is that the employer and non-smoking employees get to feel wholesome and good, and they deserve to feel better than other, lesser people, like you, who, remember, is bad. > > Fuck 'em, is what I say. And I’m not even a smoker. > [@kayaker](#): > > What do they do about non-employees (UPS driver, delivery people, plumber, electrician, etc)? I did ask my colleague about people smoking in the parking lot. He said that when the policy was initially started that there were some incidents of that happening, but they have a security department with about 7 vehicles that roam the parking lots, for untagged cars, people leaving their lights on, flats, etc. and that if people are found smoking on site, they are reminded of the policy and asked to put it out. If it becomes an issue their badge number is taken down and it is reported to their supervisors. As far as visitors go, they are advised of the policy and are asked to comply. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/33 "2017-05-09T22:41:20Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > None, really, presuming the only “punishment” is “leave” and not “if we catch you smoking, we put you in the basement dungeon for a week”. > > But how far do you expect to get when your rule is that “no one can have a cellphone in their possession” for example? Intentionally take a cellphone into a secure vault or a SCIF\* and see what happens. Even one on non-governmental private property (i.e., the campus of a government contractor working on a sensitive program). Hint: the answer involves the phrase “frog-marched”. And the phrase “terminated for cause”. And the word “banned”. \*SCIF: Secure Compartmented Information Facility. A place where everyone has a deep vested interest in preventing unauthorized communication or photography, two functions modern cellphones are very good at. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/34 "2017-05-09T23:14:24Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > I don’t know if I would call them narcs, but uniformed security officers have pulled me over TWICE on client sites because I was using an e-cig in my car as I drove off campus. That’s right…I got in my car, pulled out of the parking area, and started to use my e-cig in my personal car (with the windows rolled up) as I drove towards the main road. I got the flashing lights in my rear view within a couple minutes. These clients did not manufacture anything at all on the sites, much less anything flammable. I received a warning each time and was told that I had “agreed” to the restriction when I received my contractor ID badge. I went back and checked all the paperwork and I sure can’t see anything like that, other than a general statement about following the companies’ safety policies while on-campus. Signing the general statement about following the company’s policies _is_ agreeing to their restrictions. And don’t expect your employer to back you up on claiming you don’t have to follow the client’s rules, even if you think they’re dumb. At my company, I know of at least one instance of a truck driver getting in his cab to smoke while unloading – closed cab, in the streets\*, unloading caustic (i.e., not flammable). He was warned a few times, then his company was informed he was no longer welcome on the premises. He then got a job driving for a _different_ truck company, and was dismayed to find out he still wouldn’t be let into the plant driving a CO2 truck for them. I’m sure he had a very interesting conversation with his new employer after that. - If you’re in a street, it’s not Class 1 Div 2 or any similar restriction; the vehicles _themselves_ are ignition sources. If you see people driving around in regular vehicles (e.g., not electric carts), the area isn’t classified for flammable hazards. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/35 "2017-05-09T23:15:38Z")
If you can’t smoke in your car in the parking lot, that’s pretty over the top. It’s fair, because it’s a private place, but it’s really fucking stupid, too. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/36 "2017-05-10T02:47:03Z")
Fair. I wouldn’t work there (even though I don’t smoke cigarettes or vape) but I don’t see any problem with it as an idea and action. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/37 "2017-05-10T03:24:06Z")
At one time I worked for a company that didn’t allow smoking while on shift, it was a firing offense, no questions asked, and on the spot. The company sold exercise equipment. A few years ago, I worked at a global electronics manufacturing company that didn’t allow smoking on the campus, but changed that policy to allow smoking in the parking lot, in two designated areas. Step outside those areas (marked with painted stripes) with a lit smoke, and you were fired, if you were a repeat offender, they had security monitor the smoking area and parking lot both in person and via camera. Smoking was not allowed in your car, unless you happen to park in the smoking areas. They got tired of the complaints from the people living in the subdivision next door about all the butts all over the road and having to pay the janitorial staff to spend the time sweeping them up. Plus it didn’t look good when the corporate CEO came for a visit. One of the local hospitals that my company does a lot of business with does not allow smoking on campus. Also, not even in your car. If someone from my company is caught smoking on campus, while on the clock, that specific person is banned from the campus permanently as a service provider to the hospital, immediately. Regardless if the job is done or not. They also don’t allow us to wear shorts while working on campus, but that one doesn’t result in a perma-ban. Simplot company, supplier of potatoes to the army and French fries to McDonalds doesn’t allow smoking on their property either, again like the rest above, not even in your own car and will kick anyone caught off property (corporate hq) and they do have roaming security and cameras specifically for catching smokers. We are very careful to not violate their policy as that would result in the loss of their business to our company. Shrug, I smoke, I don’t have a problem with it, it just takes a tiny bit of self control and awareness and put yer damn butts in yer pocket if there isn’t anywhere to properly dispose of them, for pete’s sake, ya damn litterbug. (that last really irritates the hell out of me) ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/38 "2017-05-10T03:41:17Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/39 "2017-05-10T06:32:13Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > That’s when you break the rules. It’s one thing to ban smoking indoors or within sniffing distance of an entrance. But banning smoking outdoors over acres of grassy fields and parking lots is just silly and, frankly, unenforceable. Do you think they have smoke narcs roaming the parking lots looking for the odd smoker on his lunch break listening to the radio and getting a few puffs in? Unenforceable? Have all these smokers completely lost their sense of smell? Don’t they realize how much they stink of burnt cigarettes when they come back from ‘getting a few puffs in’, and how offensive that is to others who have to work around them? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2017, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209/40 "2017-05-10T08:34:10Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Corporations can have all kinds of policies about behavior on the premises. No alcohol. No racial slurs. No sexual harrassment. No littering. No pets. No loud boom boxes. No soliciting. No inappropriate apparel. No gambling. No loud farts. No smoking. > > Which of those are over the line, and which are not? If my company implements a “no loud farts” policy, I’m gonna have to pack up and find a new job. ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-smoking-anywhere-on-a-large-corporate-campus/786209.md?page=3)