# No sympathy for those Stupid Hatians! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 13, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813 "2010-01-13T18:27:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/21 "2010-01-13T19:17:04Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > But there comes a time when the sympathy just runs out and I look at that island and I think “how is the land fundamentally different from the Dominican Republic?” It’s not, and screw the history lessons about colonialism. That was a long time ago, and yet it is still the poorest nation in the Western Hemisphere. There is not a single reason why it should be. > > Again, spare me the colonialism. So there’s not a single reason it should be… except for the reasons you wish to be spared. That’s .. um… convenient. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/22 "2010-01-13T19:20:08Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Am I to understand that you would like to be held accountable, with your life, for the policies of your government? No. _Fuck no_. But in Haiti, unfortunately, tragedy is par for the course. Do you lose sleep at night thinking about Darfur? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/23 "2010-01-13T19:21:13Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > In a thread devoted to the devastating earquake Earquake my eye. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/24 "2010-01-13T19:22:12Z")
**Monkey** , let’s pretend for a moment that the Haitian people are absolutely to blame for their economic plight. Does that mean that they deserved an earthquake on top of that? Would you have more sympathy if this had happened in, say, Norway? Could you list some countries that deserve an earthquake less? ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/25 "2010-01-13T19:23:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So there’s not a single reason it should be… except for the reasons you wish to be spared. > > That’s .. um… convenient. **Bricker** , do you honestly think that colonialism is the sole cause of Haiti’s problems? Surely you’re not that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/26 "2010-01-13T19:26:54Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > They need a damn revolution… the Haitian people need to rise up and start something different because the just above starvation thing ain’t working. [They did that.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Haitian_rebellion) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/27 "2010-01-13T19:27:15Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > “how is the land fundamentally different from the Dominican Republic?” It’s not, and screw the history lessons about colonialism. This makes my head hurt. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/28 "2010-01-13T19:27:46Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > How long do you bet it will take before someone on Fox News lambastes Obama for responding immediately to this but waiting three days to say anything about the underwear bomber? Rush opened with it. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/29 "2010-01-13T19:29:16Z")
Looks like there could be over 100,000 dead. > [@](#): > > Prime Minister Jean-Max Bellerive told US network CNN he believed more than 100,000 people had died. [BBC News - Haiti earthquake: Thousands feared dead](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8456819.stm) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/30 "2010-01-13T19:33:39Z")
I would have written this in the original thread at the time, but was on a train and only had my iPhone: What I find disturbing is that, should the earthquake have devastated more of Hispaniola, **A Monkey With a Gun** would indeed have had turned on his compassion gland for people just over the border. I guess a maimed child that was lucky enough to be born into a better government _is_ more worthy of pity than a maimed child who was born under a shitty regime. (Dude, the above sarcasm aside, your attitude is fucked up, and makes you look like an unpleasant, smug, ivory tower prick.) ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/31 "2010-01-13T19:36:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > **Has** he responded immediately to this? Well, he did issue a statement this morning: [http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/01/13/us/politics/politics-us-quake-haiti-obama-statement.html](http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/01/13/us/politics/politics-us-quake-haiti-obama-statement.html) ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/32 "2010-01-13T19:37:20Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > **Monkey** , let’s pretend for a moment that the Haitian people are absolutely to blame for their economic plight. Let’s not. I have desire to play your masturbatory hypothetical games. We all know that things don’t fit in nice intellectual boxes. You idiots can read the news and think about Haiti for five minutes and feel good about yourselves, but that doesn’t fix the fucking problem, does it? Go ahead, give 10 bucks to some disaster relief organization and watch a crooked politician use it to pay for his mistress’s tennis bracelet. Haiti is fucked. You idiots are only caring because the ground shook. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/33 "2010-01-13T19:40:28Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > [They did that.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Haitian_rebellion) Heh. I forgot about that. Meet the new boss - same as the old boss. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/34 "2010-01-13T19:45:39Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > **Bricker** , do you honestly think that colonialism is the sole cause of Haiti’s problems? Surely you’re not that stupid. Do you honestly think that **Bricker** thinks that colonialism is the _sole_ cause of Haiti’s problems? Surely you’re not that stupid. Sole causes are for children - the real world is a more complex place. That being said, we’ve seen over and over again that colonial powers that don’t govern very, very carefully (and get a whole lot of luck besides) tend to leave a mess in their wake. When you spent a very long time governing people with a system that’s meant for no higher end than transferring wealth from their pockets to yours, the new, independent government will likely do the same. After all, the only people with the education and privilege needed to make a run at being the new government are going to be the ones whom the colonial authority favored and promoted for their skill at exploiting their countrymen. So - corrupt colonial regimes tend to bread corrupt “independent” successor governments. And those governments tend to perpetuate themselves? You know how the Brits built schools in the American colonies? And courts? And legislatures? Well, the French never did that. And do you remember how the US spend the 19th century ruled by governments that actually gave a damn about the future of the country? Well, the Haitians don’t, because that didn’t happen there. Remember how we spent the Sixties forcing our state and federal governments to fight racism, become transparent, embrace environmental responsibility, and so on? Again, the Haitians didn’t get that. They got Papa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier, as great a pair of monsters as ever proclaimed themselves rulers of a people. Now, you might say, “Well, why didn’t the Haitians rise up? Demand good government?” Awfully brave of you to ask. But in fact, the Haitians _did_ try to force the dictators out and democracy in. But when you’ve had so many people, for so long, trying to get to the top of the “steal everything from the state that you can” game, there are a lot of spoilers who’re more than willing to bypass or attack democratic institutions. Bad governments - and most colonial governments _were_ pretty awful - leave more bad governments in their wake. Those additional bad governments leave poverty, lawlessness, and ruin in their wake. Some countries, believe it or not, really do get dealt a far worse set of cards than others. Haiti got one of the worst. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/35 "2010-01-13T19:48:18Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Haiti is fucked. You idiots are only caring because the ground shook. No one denies that the situation in Haiti is awful, and likely to remain so. But there are gradations of awfulness. Right now, there are deaths - rather a lot of them - that can be prevented through swift, decisive action. Perhaps the desire to take that action makes us idiots. If so, I can only hope that smart people like you stay out of the decision-making process. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/36 "2010-01-13T19:48:45Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Let’s not. I have desire to play your masturbatory hypothetical games. We all know that things don’t fit in nice intellectual boxes. You idiots can read the news and think about Haiti for five minutes and feel good about yourselves, but that doesn’t fix the fucking problem, does it? Go ahead, give 10 bucks to some disaster relief organization and watch a crooked politician use it to pay for his mistress’s tennis bracelet. > > Haiti is fucked. You idiots are only caring because the ground shook. Africa’s purportedly in a similar situation, one Ugandan journo claiming that the best thing the west can do is [nothing](http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/markets/africa/article684563.ece). However, this is still skirting the real issue; that people are still suffering and should not be blamed for the system they happen to be born in, that we have a duty to aid those in need even if some of said money does go to some grinning warlord. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/37 "2010-01-13T19:49:18Z")
Well, in a way it seems Haiti is a clogged toilet that is going to have to be flushed. Whether it’s Mother Nature or violent overthrow that does the flushing, lots of people are going to suffer and die. It sounds like if this disaster led to the complete destruction of the current government and a complete rebuilding of the whole society, it would be a great thing, despite the suffering of individuals. I’d really rather Mother Nature ripped that band-aid off quick, then the way it’s happening otherwise. OTOH, that’s probably not going to happen, so mostly it just sucks. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/38 "2010-01-13T19:50:33Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > That being said, we’ve seen over and over again that colonial powers that don’t govern very, very carefully (and get a whole lot of luck besides) tend to leave a mess in their wake. . Haiti gained it’s freedom from the colonial yoke in 1804. That’s over 200 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/39 "2010-01-13T19:51:31Z")
My only real complaint here is that I didn’t want to hear this bullshit in the actual earthquake thread. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2010, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813/40 "2010-01-13T19:56:02Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Haiti gained it’s freedom from the colonial yoke in 1804. > > That’s over 200 years ago. And over those 200 years it endured a series of dictatorships, coups, and low-grade civil wars, an occupation by the United States, a dictatorship combined with a nasty cult of personality, and assorted natural disasters. Seriously - what is it you’re saying? That Haitians, alone among the human race, _enjoy_ being ruled by thugs? That they offended the hurricane gods? What? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-sympathy-for-those-stupid-hatians/524813.md?page=3)