# No talk about Trump's bungled adventure in Yemen? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896 "2017-02-03T12:42:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/21 "2017-02-03T16:12:15Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > That operation has been in the works for months. Exactly what makes it “Trumps” bungled adventure? He’s the one who pulled the trigger. Fasten your seat belt, this half witted POTUS is just getting started. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/22 "2017-02-03T16:13:23Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Weaksauce. > > When future historians make a list of Trump’s biggest failures as President, this event won’t even make the Top 1,000. Because this was “weaksauce”? Or because we’ve got so many worse ones coming up. After all, only _one_ SEAL died… ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/23 "2017-02-03T16:15:51Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yeah, what could go wrong when you stick your son-in-law **and** Bannon on a committee led by an orange ape, and ask the committee to make life and death decisions authorizing military raids. What the fuck could possibly go wrong? The point is that if all the military people and intel people say it’s a good idea, the President approves it, and then it gets bungled, or the plan actually sucked, the President is only nominally responsible in his capacity as CinC. Few Presidents (maybe Eisenhower or Roosevelt) have the ability to evaluate military plans or determine whether the support is sufficient, or to evaluate any number of other operational decisions and factors. They’re just making the final decisions based on what their generals and intelligence wonks tell them, and if they said this was a good idea, then the President’s decision will likely be made within the context of the political ramifications, which he theoretically IS qualified to evaluate. However, if the military and intel people were saying “Let’s not go- we’re not in position, we don’t have enough intel, etc…” and Trump basically commanded them to go in spite of all that, due to a desire to look tough or something, then it would definitely be his fault. We don’t have any evidence either way yet, and I’m leaning toward this being more similar to Eagle Claw, which was hardly Carter’s fault, but failed due to a combination of really atrocious luck and some bungling on the part of the military. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/24 "2017-02-03T16:22:14Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I hate to defend the man, but why should he have been in the Situation Room? Osama was a big deal, I can see why everyone wanted in on that (plus we were in a foreign country with absolutely no permission), but I’m guessing these kinds of raids are, if not common, not unusual, and the president shouldn’t have to babysit each one. > > And of course, anytime there is a military operation, there is a chance that one of our people is going to die. > > No comment intended as to whether he should have approved the raid - but any president is going to have to trust his military advisors on something like this. Maybe I’m just weird, but if I ever had to personally give an order (Trump actually didn’t have to) that will get people killed, I’d at least be interested enough to monitor the progress. Of course, I would have conferred with the right people first - intelligence and military, not the Nazi from Breitbart and my son in law (or whatever that other asshole is). _Trump … yeah! let’s blow shit up! kick ass! kill things! but don’t interrupt my meal, or ask me to come all the way downstairs._ ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/25 "2017-02-03T16:23:17Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > So even when the Commander in Chief, the guy who (theoretically) has a plaque on his desk that says “the buck stops here”, he’s by golly in charge and the smartest man in the room, and making the decisions, messes up, it’s STILL Obama’s fault? > > Amazing. Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/26 "2017-02-03T16:24:17Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > And the advice he gets will only be as good as the people he surrounds himself with. then we’re ALL fucked. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/27 "2017-02-03T16:27:34Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Because this was “weaksauce”? Or because we’ve got so many worse ones coming up. After all, only _one_ SEAL died… “Coming up”??? This current President has done more stupid shit in his first two weeks than George W. Bush did in his whole first _year._ Besides, a special forces raid that goes tits-up is nothing remarkable. It’s the cost of doing business (make an omelet, break a few eggs & all that.) And pouncing on every tiny mistake makes our side look bad. Best to focus on Trump’s real doozies instead, and believe me, there will be no shortage of them. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/28 "2017-02-03T16:29:08Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Because this was “weaksauce”? Or because we’ve got so many worse ones coming up. After all, only _one_ SEAL died… Now I have a mental image stuck in my head of William Dozier breathlessly declaring _“The worst is yet to come!”_ as Adam West and Burt Ward carefully squirm in place so as to not accidentally pull a hand or foot loose from their bonds. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/29 "2017-02-03T16:31:05Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Obama refused to authorize it because the intelligence wasn’t good enough. Trump authorized it in spite of the intelligence not being good enough. I think it’s clear the Trump administration has a much lower standard on what amount of intelligence is needed to make important decisions. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/30 "2017-02-03T16:34:50Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > And the advice he gets will only be as good as the people he surrounds himself with. True. But as far as I can tell this was greenlit before he decided to remove all the people who understood national security from the National Security Council. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/31 "2017-02-03T16:35:04Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > “Coming up”??? This current President has done more stupid shit in his first two weeks than George W. Bush did in his whole first _year._ > > Besides, a special forces raid that goes tits-up is nothing remarkable. It’s the cost of doing business (make an omelet, break a few eggs & all that.) And pouncing on every tiny mistake makes our side look bad. Best to focus on Trump’s real doozies instead, and believe me, there will be no shortage of them. There used to be a meme, or a poster of George W… The caption said “miss me yet?” Comparing the two, and after the shit show we’ve been seeing lately, I do miss him. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/32 "2017-02-03T16:35:50Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Weaksauce. > > When future historians make a list of Trump’s biggest failures as President, this event won’t even make the Top 1,000. But this is presumably the first time that President Trump made a decision that got some Americans killed. Kennedy learned from the Bay of Pigs. Do you think Trump has learned anything? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/33 "2017-02-03T16:36:16Z")
You don’t authorize a strike with the president you want, you do it with the president you got. I feel sorry for the poor troops who will pay for his brashness with their lives. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/34 "2017-02-03T16:37:00Z")
I’m leaning towards “let’s get more info before we pass judgement”. Still, I am very, very, VERY nervous about having Trump as the CiC. As I noted in one of he other threads, what’s going on in Syria right now, and who is calling the shots there? Are we still bombing the shit out of them? And in Afghanistan? Trump’s rhetoric puts him as a reckless nincompoop, so it would not surprise me in the least if this turned out to be bungled. We shall see. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/35 "2017-02-03T16:39:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But this is presumably the first time that President Trump made a decision that got some Americans killed. > > Kennedy learned from the Bay of Pigs. Do you think Trump has learned anything? Blame Obama _before_ authorizing the mission? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/36 "2017-02-03T16:45:26Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m leaning towards “let’s get more info before we pass judgement”. Still, I am very, very, VERY nervous about having Trump as the CiC. As I noted in one of he other threads, what’s going on in Syria right now, and who is calling the shots there? Are we still bombing the shit out of them? And in Afghanistan? Trump’s rhetoric puts him as a reckless nincompoop, so it would not surprise me in the least if this turned out to be bungled. We shall see. In addition to being infinitely incompetent and having absolutely no regard for information or fact or truth, Trump is a living breathing recruitment poster for the terrorists. He is so obsessed with “winning” and “getting even” that nothing else matters. Not fact, not lives, nothing. We are only seeing the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/37 "2017-02-03T16:53:56Z")
On the other side of the coin, [Trump throws away](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obamas-white-house-worked-for-months-on-a-plan-to-seize-raqqa-trumps-team-deemed-it-hopelessly-inadequate/2017/02/02/116310fa-e71a-11e6-80c2-30e57e57e05d_story.html?utm_term=.24139ae74ae5) a carefully worked out plan to take back Raqqa. Apparently he is still holding on to the old Republican playbook which was what ever the Obama administration sees as the best course do the exact opposite. > [@](#): > > Trump has made it clear that he prefers to go with his gut and has promised a swift and brutal campaign that will “utterly destroy” the Islamic State. In meetings with his national security team, he has signaled his desire to give Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, whom he regularly refers to by the nickname “Mad Dog,” a free hand in doing whatever it takes to fight terrorism. > > It is up to Mattis and the rest of Trump’s national security team to translate the president’s campaign-trail pronouncements into policy. Trump’s more aggressive approach could speed the destruction of the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, but it also could lead to an increase in civilian deaths, fueling anger toward the United States. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/38 "2017-02-03T17:03:12Z")
If we “took back” Raqqa, what would we do with it? I wasn’t aware that it was ever ours, but I’m eager to hear what you think. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/39 "2017-02-03T17:15:13Z")
Beyond all this, where is the proof that this was actually bungled or unsuccessful, other than a sailor getting killed? One soldier getting killed in the course of a raid doesn’t even come close to the standard for bungling. It’s an occupational hazard when your job is to go in and kill people as well as effectively steal intelligence information. It happens, even on the most successful and well-planned missions. Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s older brother was the only Israeli killed on the legendary Entebbe raid- would you call that a failure? Plenty of other successful commando raids have had casualties as well. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896/40 "2017-02-03T17:18:38Z")
The paranoid, Machiavellian conspiracy theorist inside me says Obama “left” this bad raid plan lying around, hoping Herr Twitler would find it and act on it, to make him look incompetent. Knowing it would fail spectacularly. Maybe Obama left a few more bombs in the woodwork. Very _Dune-ish_. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-talk-about-trumps-bungled-adventure-in-yemen/778896.md?page=3)