# No, tax cuts do not increase overall revenue more than they cost, for the last time **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2006, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046 "2006-10-19T03:03:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/21 "2006-10-19T17:37:48Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] Just because a majority approves theft does not make it any less theft. It’s not as if these votes are whether or not taxes should be increased for only those who approve of the increase. No, the votes are for taxes to be increased for everyone, regardless of his or her consent. Since I don’t want to pay them, and the government says that I must do that or be imprisoned or killed, I’d say that has a lot in common with the robber who approaches me and demands my money or my life. A lof of people do – they move their assets offshore. And, of course, they get blasted for doing so. [/QUOTE] You think you’ve got it rough, DC residents don’t even get to vote for senators or congressmen. I have heard the “taxes are a form of extortion” from more than a few tax protesters and it is crap. You are not the sole cause of your income. If there was not a stable and affluent society for you to thrive in, you would be making a lot less. If there wasn’t the sort of infrastructure we have in this country, everything would cost you more. The more you make, the more you benefit from a stable society with well a developed infrastructure. Everyone I know works hard for their money, from the investment banker who works 15 hour days to make $3,000,000/year to the immigrant grocer who works 15 hours a day to make $50,000/year. I grew up with poor immigrants and I work with wealthy bankers and lawyers and I have not noticed enough of a difference between the two groups to account for the disparity in income (the bankers and lawyers have MBAs and law degrees). That’s not to say that we should equalize incomes but we should at least recognize that Ayn Rand’s novels to the contrary, the wealth and prosperity of society is carried on the backs of the working class as much if not more than on the backs of the movers and shakers and certainly more than the leisure class. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/22 "2006-10-19T17:39:54Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] How many people have been executed for failure to pay taxes? What is the ratio of crazy hyperbole to reasonable point that is acceptable before credence drops to insignificance? [/QUOTE] It hasn’t happened recently but people used to be sold into slavery for failure to pay taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/23 "2006-10-19T18:11:34Z")
Maybe Bush will pardon Wesley Snipes. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/24 "2006-10-19T18:38:23Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] It hasn’t happened recently but people used to be sold into slavery for failure to pay taxes. [/QUOTE] So **Renob’s** assertion that he could be “imprisoned or killed” if he doesn’t pay his taxes should actually be that the government could imprison him or sell him into slavery if he doesn’t pay his taxes? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/25 "2006-10-19T18:46:30Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] Where do you suggest we cut the fat? [/QUOTE] I can think of a couple of highway projects that should have been avoided: [Dennis Hastert’s Highway Retirement Fund](http://www.sunlightfoundation.com/node/793) [Alaskan Rep. Don Young’s Pork Barrel Bridge to (almost) Nowhere](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050808/8highway.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/26 "2006-10-19T19:39:34Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] Just because a majority approves theft does not make it any less theft. It’s not as if these votes are whether or not taxes should be increased for only those who approve of the increase. No, the votes are for taxes to be increased for everyone, regardless of his or her consent. Since I don’t want to pay them, and the government says that I must do that or be imprisoned or killed, I’d say that has a lot in common with the robber who approaches me and demands my money or my life. [/quote] Theft is done by thieves. Thieves are criminals who violate the law. If taxation is theft, there is an implication that taxation violates the law - while it is the law. The taxation = theft argument is using a loaded word to associate our lawful government with a criminal enterprise, and is still bullshit. In fact, those who do not pay their taxes and are getting services (even the protection of the state) are stealing from those of are who do, and are the real thieves. If you don’t think you’re getting your money’s worth, that is another story. > [@](#): > > A lof of people do – they move their assets offshore. And, of course, they get blasted for doing so. I don’t know the ins and outs of the tax law for foreign investments, but if they pay their taxes on what comes into the country, at least. I have no problem. If they wish to have all their earning stay overseas and live like paupers here, and pay little tax, fine also. But if they want to live well and not pay US taxes, all they have to do is leave the US. Nobody is forcing them to stay. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/27 "2006-10-19T19:51:55Z")
[QUOTE=ShibbOleth] I can think of a couple of highway projects that should have been avoided: [Dennis Hastert’s Highway Retirement Fund](http://www.sunlightfoundation.com/node/793) [Alaskan Rep. Don Young’s Pork Barrel Bridge to (almost) Nowhere](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050808/8highway.htm) [/QUOTE] Good examples. But the question isn’t whether the government is 100% efficient (it isn’t) but what is the maximum practical level of efficiency we can get. When you plan the utilization of machines in a factory, you never schedule them for 100%. There needs to be idle time to absorb problems. Maybe some of these things are similar - the cost we pay for political compromise. I’m not saying we’re anywhere near optimal, but even if we were people would be able to point to “waste” and claim it could be eliminated - even if it couldn’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2006, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/28 "2006-10-19T19:55:43Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] Since I don’t want to pay them, and the government says that I must do that or be imprisoned or killed, I’d say that has a lot in common with the robber who approaches me and demands my money or my life. [/QUOTE] To respond to this point, you won’t be klilled, but by taking the services without paying the price, you are more like the robber than the robbee, and so I have no trouble with the threat of imprisonment. The assholes with their theories of tax legality are stealing more than the random shoplifter, and deserve longer sentences. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/29 "2006-10-20T16:54:05Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] So **Renob’s** assertion that he could be “imprisoned or killed” if he doesn’t pay his taxes should actually be that the government could imprison him or sell him into slavery if he doesn’t pay his taxes? [/QUOTE] It was a non sequitor. I wasn’t trying to make a point. I will say that you can go to jail for cheating on your taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/30 "2006-10-20T16:56:10Z")
[QUOTE=ShibbOleth] I can think of a couple of highway projects that should have been avoided: [Dennis Hastert’s Highway Retirement Fund](http://www.sunlightfoundation.com/node/793) [Alaskan Rep. Don Young’s Pork Barrel Bridge to (almost) Nowhere](http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/050808/8highway.htm) [/QUOTE] OK, so you are talking about pork. Both parties have a huge apetite for pork, I thought you were talking about social programs, which (IMO) are running pretty lean these days. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/31 "2006-10-20T17:09:55Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] I have heard the “taxes are a form of extortion” from more than a few tax protesters and it is crap. You are not the sole cause of your income. If there was not a stable and affluent society for you to thrive in, you would be making a lot less. If there wasn’t the sort of infrastructure we have in this country, everything would cost you more. The more you make, the more you benefit from a stable society with well a developed infrastructure. [/QUOTE] Thanks for saying that. I always try to make this exact point to people who compare taxes to theft. The way I see it, people who make more money should have to pay back higher percentage to society in the form of taxes since they clearly benefitted more than lower earners. Another fact that tax cut proponents choose to neglect is that tax cuts actually lead to more government spending (more pork and more waste). An attempt to starve the beast actually makes the beast fatter. This is because a tax cut is perceived as a discount on services. Thus, voters demand more services when being taxed at a lower rate since services appear to be cheaper than they were before. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2006, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046/32 "2006-10-20T17:10:18Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] OK, so you are talking about pork. Both parties have a huge apetite for pork, I thought you were talking about social programs, which (IMO) are running pretty lean these days. [/QUOTE] All in good time, lad, all in good time. Rome wasn’t dismantled in a day, you know… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-tax-cuts-do-not-increase-overall-revenue-more-than-they-cost-for-the-last-time/377046.md?page=1)