# No thanks, I'll take my chances with the psychopath. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135 "2012-07-23T14:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/181 "2012-07-23T22:10:01Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I’d suggest you not go to movies in crowded theaters. I’m willing to bet if you and your family were in one, and a shooter was firing, you’d be thinking “I hope someone shoots that bastard before he gets to my family.” Well, that and “I bet there’s a ton of free Milk Duds under these seats right now!” ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/182 "2012-07-23T22:11:33Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > As for the “easy headshot” you presented in your first post… The training I’ve had taught us there is no such thing as an easy headshot. They specifically directed us away from shooting the “bad guy” in the head - aim for the center of mass unless there’s some absolutely extraordinary circumstance which makes you have to go for the head. ~ I carry my concealed handgun to the movies, mainly because I’ve had a couple incidents where I was harassed by a gang of teenagers outside a theater, and sometimes at night when you’re walking through the dark parking lot, it’s very uncomfortable. My tactic in this situation would have been to run like hell pushing Fierra ahead of me so I could shield her. If that seemed really unwise, like hails of bullets overhead, then I’d force us both down onto the floor between the rows as low as possible and try to wait for the assailant to stop or be stopped. I would draw my gun at that point, however, and if in a hypothetical situation the assailant was walking down the aisle to “clean up” stragglers, yes I would shoot to kill him as he came by, because at that point as soon as he sees us on the floor he’s almost certainly going to shoot us anyhow. Hopefully at least someone will agree that’s a reasonable tactic. ---
**Author:** ![straight\_man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straight_man/32/3027_2.png) [@straight\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/straight_man)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/183 "2012-07-23T22:13:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The campaign would come to a stop once it hit a 2:1 ratio, I assure you, assuming one for every man and two for every woman. It would be a 1.5:1 dildo:asshole ratio, assuming about even numbers of men and women. [/PEDANTRY] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/184 "2012-07-23T22:14:14Z")
I agree that’s a reasonable tactic. I assume you’ll agree that’s not what **Morgenstern** or **kwimby** have been talking about. I consider it instructive that a number of people pointing out what a bad idea it was to return fire from across the theater are generally pro-gun. ---
**Author:** ![Makeitstop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@Makeitstop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Makeitstop)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/185 "2012-07-23T22:14:27Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The little girl with the calculus book, obviously. But then you might owe her an apology. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/186 "2012-07-23T22:14:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I would have my family duck out of sight People think that bringing a 3 month old infant was inexcusable, and you want to sneak in your duck? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/187 "2012-07-23T22:17:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > 1. How many states require a CCW course, and > 2. In what way do they prepare you to handle a situation like this any better than the average joe? A majority of the states which honor CCW require completion of a practical classroom course. IME this course is typically 6-8 hours of legalities and safety tips, followed by a minimal range demonstration. I have not seen any curriculum for any standard CCW license which would give any CCW holder any better chance of responding to a situation like this than any average gun owner. I’m happy to be proven wrong, but I doubt such a course would make up the majority of CCW courses. I know a bit about Colorado’s requirements, and they appear to be very similar to what I mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/188 "2012-07-23T22:18:30Z")
@ **Inigo** Yeah, it’s pretty hopeless isn’t it. The alternative is to lay there and watch him walk his shots up your leg into your chest. Airline pilots received the right to carry handguns to protect themself and their aircraft. Apparently they feel they can use their weapons in a safe way, and doing so in an airliner has to be much more difficult. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/189 "2012-07-23T22:19:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I agree that’s a reasonable tactic. I assume you’ll agree that’s not what **Morgenstern** or **kwimby** have been talking about. I agree they are advocating a very different course. I know my own limitations and the limitations of reality, and that’s why my course of action would have been purely avoidance and defensive, up until the point where no avoidance or defense was at all possible. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/190 "2012-07-23T22:29:27Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I agree they are advocating a very different course. I know my own limitations and the limitations of reality, and that’s why my course of action would have been purely avoidance and defensive, up until the point where no avoidance or defense was at all possible. As I’ve said, when you’ve got to choose between becoming a victim or firing back, because running is no longer possible, then I don’t see an option other than returning fire. Actually, the part about _no avoidance or possible defense_ pretty clearly equated to my “fire back or die” in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/191 "2012-07-23T22:31:12Z")
This masturbatory fantasy seems to hinge on the premise “I’m armed, the gunman is armed, _but no one else is armed_.” The reality would be that even if, say, five “good guys” were armed, as soon as one fired, the complexity of the situation would increase dramatically, and suddenly you’d have six retards firing randomly in a crowded theatre rather than just one. That sure would make things better! ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/192 "2012-07-23T22:32:34Z")
That’s been said a couple of times now in this thread and everyone save a few Fred Willards agrees. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/193 "2012-07-23T22:33:33Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > As I’ve said, when you’ve got to choose between becoming a victim or firing back, because running is no longer possible, then I don’t see an option other than returning fire. Strangely, quite a few people did not become victims despite not returning fire. How about that! ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/194 "2012-07-23T22:35:38Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > Strangely, quite a few people did not become victims despite not returning fire. How about that! Yet, one out of four did. What odds. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/195 "2012-07-23T22:38:54Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > That’s been said a couple of times now in this thread and everyone save a few Fred Willards agrees. This is like some bizarro case of Kant’s categorical imperative. If you have to assume that you’re the only guy with a gun, then, as Kant would say, “You’re fucked.” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/196 "2012-07-23T22:39:29Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > You’ve never shot a gun have you? Not that it matters, but I have. A long time ago, to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/197 "2012-07-23T22:43:11Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > Dear guy I work with, cousin, dude from the bar, friend of a friend, Louie Gohmert, and every other gun toting pussy who seems to think that they could have taken out the Aurora shooter with their ersatz penis: > > No, you couldn’t have. The theater was dark. The dude was wearing body armor. People were running all over the place. > > If there’s more than one of you goobers in the theater, it’s just as likely that you’re going to start taking shots at _each other_ as taking shots at the shooter. > > Your skill at Counterstrike and/or your experience peeling potatoes and pounding a daily twelve pack in the Army do not qualify you to engage in a shootout in a room full of several hundred panicking civilians. > > You’re more dangerous to the rest of us than you will likely ever be to an armed psychopath. I know the idea of getting to kill an honest to goodness Bad Guy gives you a tremendous boner, but please shut the fuck up about it already, you fucking menace. A tactical vest is not body armor. That being said [http://planet.infowars.com/guns/death-by-democide-the-reason-we-have-the-2nd-amendment](http://planet.infowars.com/guns/death-by-democide-the-reason-we-have-the-2nd-amendment) Several examples of armed citizens staving off shooters or reducing their damage. In 1997, an assistant principal grabbed a .45 from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued a teen shooter at his Mississippi high school after two students were shot and seven were injured (source). ``` In February 2007, an armed off-duty officer was able to fend off a shooter in a Utah mall until police could arrive (source). Later that same year, a Colorado woman with a pistol permit took down a gunman after a shooting spree that spanned 12 hours and two churches left five people dead (source). Last year, a pharmacist with a concealed carry permit was able to stop two armed robbers who had taken customers hostage at his Michigan drugstore (source). Just last month, a legally armed passerby was able to end a vicious attack on a woman in Georgia simply by brandishing his weapon and threatening to use it (source). ``` So before you speak without knowing what youre talking about, STFU ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/198 "2012-07-23T22:44:13Z")
News story in NY Times from 2008. > [@](#): > > The average number of bullets fired by each officer involved in a shooting remained about the same over those 11 years even with a switch to guns that hold more bullets — as did officers’ accuracy, roughly 34 percent. This figure is known in police parlance as the “hit ratio.” Over an 11 year period, trained police officers had a hit ration of 34 percent. Big time, big city NYPD police officers more likely to miss their target than hit it. And as the article states, this was usually **without** people firing at them. So why would anyone trust the accuracy of an every day armed citizen, suddenly thrust into an adrenaline-fueled fight for his life. Anyone else reminded of the kid with the hand-cannon that came out blasting from the bathroom in **Pulp Fiction**? Don’t get me wrong, if an audience member stands up and plugs the guy in the head, I’ll buy him dinner. But said audience member would have to have astonishing self-control, great hand to eye coordination, brass balls and nerves of fucking steel. I know a lot of folks see themselves that way, but its actually, ya know, kinda rare. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/199 "2012-07-23T22:46:29Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Yet, one out of four did. What odds. That still indicates that you’re presenting a false dilemma. The choices in reality are… [ol] [li]attempt to leave the theatre and possibly survive[/li][li]return fire, increasing the complexity of the situation and dramatically reducing the survival rate for all involved[/li][/ol] As someone else said, you’re basically saying you’d rather increase your own (imagined) odds of survival by endangering everyone. Some fucking hero you are. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/200 "2012-07-23T22:46:59Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > Anyone else reminded of the kid with the hand-cannon that came out blasting from the bathroom in **Pulp Fiction**? Oh yeah. Whatever happened to him after his meeting with the businessmen he was politely talking to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=11)