# No thanks, I'll take my chances with the psychopath. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135 "2012-07-23T14:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/201 "2012-07-23T22:54:54Z")
Didn’t he leave his weapon in the kitchen when he went off to the bathroom to take a dump? Fatal mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/202 "2012-07-23T22:55:28Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Didn’t he leave his weapon in the kitchen when he went off to the bathroom to take a dump? Fatal mistake. Wrong scene. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/203 "2012-07-23T22:56:38Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Was Holmes in fact wearing body armor? I’ve read claims (from pro-gun sources, so who knows?) that the media misidentified a tactical vest- basically a jacket with lots of handy pockets and loops- as body armor. True or not? In this [press conference video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2toZkIXh9VY) (at 10:05) Dan Oates, the Aurora Chief of Police says ballistic helmet, tactical ballistic vest, ballistic leggings, a throat protector, a groin protector, tactical gloves and a gas mask. The Denver Post reported that\* “Oates said the shooter wore a ballistic helmet, gas mask, throat-protector, tactical vest and pants – such complete protective gear that responding officers almost mistook him for a member of the SWAT team”\* ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/204 "2012-07-23T22:57:33Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I assume you’d choose to die over fighting back. Fine, the world needs fewer dildos. Really, you don’t want to reemphasize the “guns as penis substitutes” meme in this thread, do you? Just take your Viagra & go back to your video game… ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/205 "2012-07-23T22:57:46Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The little girl with the calculus book, obviously. Yo K, she was about to start somethin > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Well, you got me there. Most states don’t make concealed permit candidates face off in gunfights with an adversary in full ballistic armor toting an AR-15 with a 100 round mag, tossing tear gas, as part of their training. Tactical vest is not full armor. It is not bullet proof. It merely organizes your ability to get to your needs. i.e. lines up magazines, etc. The mask prevents the smoke from getting to you, it doesnt protect you from bullets. It wasnt tear gas, it was a smoke bomb. A view obstruction device. I have yet to see any report saying it was tear gas > [@Morgenstern](#): > > **Czarcasm** , Seriously, are you being deliberately obtuse? Par for the course. He gets this question a lot of these boards. > [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > It’s a movie theatre. It’s dark, it’s loud, and it’s smoky. The guy is walking up and down isles spraying bullets. It would be quite hard to get a good shot at him. The greater chance is that you’re going to miss. > > I’d like to see if those macho guys who would’ve taken down the killer would’ve been OK diving over women and children or helping them with their injuries while the freakjob ran loose. That, imho, is a hero. > > There were military in the audience and some of them died. That did a lot of good. The officers responding didn’t shoot, either, but he surrendered. Not sure where youre getting your info, but that isnt what happened. > [@kwimby](#): > > So you imagine the shooter is strolling through the aisles while committing this atrocity? > > The miscreant in question was standing up in the middle of the screen, backlighted by it, firing out into the frenzied audience. It would have been an easy head shot from anywhere in the first 5 rows with anything bigger than a pocket pistol. He chose this venue because of Cinema 16’s no-guns policy and the likelihood there would be no armed opponents among his well-massed victims. Yep. So in essence, the people on the boards want to give him easy pray. Ive been shot at before, more then once in fact. I wasnt allowed to carry a weapon. I dont appreciate being the duck in a duck shoot. Some examples of armed citizens protecting their lives successfully \> In 1997, an assistant principal grabbed a .45 from the glove compartment of his truck and subdued a teen shooter at his Mississippi high school after two students were shot and seven were injured. \> In February 2007, an armed off-duty officer was able to fend off a shooter in a Utah mall until police could arrive (source). Later that same year, a Colorado woman with a pistol permit took down a gunman after a shooting spree that spanned 12 hours and two churches left five people dead. \> Last year, a pharmacist with a concealed carry permit was able to stop two armed robbers who had taken customers hostage at his Michigan drugstore. \> Just last month, a legally armed passerby was able to end a vicious attack on a woman in Georgia simply by brandishing his weapon and threatening to use it . Cite available in other thread ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/206 "2012-07-23T23:15:53Z")
The Police report does identify the vest as tactical ballistic ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/207 "2012-07-23T23:17:10Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > The choices in reality are… > > [ol] > [li]attempt to leave the theatre and possibly survive[/li][li]return fire, increasing the complexity of the situation and dramatically reducing the survival rate for all involved[/li][/ol] > As someone else said, you’re basically saying you’d rather increase your own (imagined) odds of survival by endangering everyone. Some fucking hero you are. The odds of survival are already in the toilet; might as well hope someone nails the bastard. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/208 "2012-07-23T23:20:44Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What I want to know is how he came in the fire exit. Aren’t those supposed to be locked from the outside? I heard a report that he had bought a ticket. So he goes in during preview, leaves door ajar, arms himself, re-enters ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/209 "2012-07-23T23:22:50Z")
As has also already been said several times already. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/210 "2012-07-23T23:26:08Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > As has also already been said several times already. Hell, he can’t even remember his _own_ posts, you think he’s going to pay attention to anyone else’s? ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/211 "2012-07-23T23:34:00Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Ok, I’ll hang up the smartass hat for a second to address this. > > There are 75-100 people on your side, and one on his side. The advantage is his: if it twitches, he shoots it. As for your position: if it twitches, you must identify friend/foe and deliver ordnance as appropriate upon an armored target with limited vulnerability–and you don’t even know about the body armor yet; and no way in hell are you getting headshots with a pistol with any kind of certainty except under optimal conditions against a well-lit, stationary target. Handgun training will direct your aim to a body shot. You fire, hit armor, he returns fire, you die. You have a decision to make, he doesn’t. Unless you can approach from outside his field of vision and snipe him, he wins every time. And because you can’t risk popping your head up to look at him and check on his position, because he’ll spray your locale when you twitch, you’re left with only an ambush strategy and laying low. If he goes on the hunt, which at that point is the only way for you to see him, you see each other at the same time, again you lose. > > Theonly way to win this one is for everyone to recognize, immediately, that he’s not part of the film, that he’s not just some troll spraying blanks, that he has a finite number of shots before reloading, and that he needs to be rushed by everyone in the theater. That sort of realization takes some time to get to, which is why it can work against hijackers on a plane that are not actively killing anyone, and not in a movie house under attack. Your position is all bravado, dude. Logistically there can be no hero. This guy could probably have gotten away if he’d just left the car running, popped in, gassed and sprayed a few magazines, and then left the same way he entered. Because nobody would even be able to feel their own feet for several minutes after that kind of terror. You need to get yourself into some danger I think. The only thing here that I would add is this He isnt returning fire, he is already firing. The video says 51 injured (1 in the adjoining theatre) out of 75. That is a 68% hit ratio. Of those hit, 23% died, and that number can still go up because 2 are critical. Essentially, 1 in 4 people hit, died and 2/3rds were hit. Im sorry, but if those are my odds, Im firing back. ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/212 "2012-07-23T23:38:25Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The odds of survival are already in the toilet; might as well hope someone nails the bastard. 70 people were shot out of maybe 300. 1 in 4 odds of survival is still better than 3 in 4 when armchair Rambos start firing. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/213 "2012-07-23T23:38:47Z")
> [@black\_rabbit](#): > > Dear guy I work with, cousin, dude from the bar, friend of a friend, Louie Gohmert, and every other gun toting pussy who seems to think that they could have taken out the Aurora shooter with their ersatz penis: > > No, you couldn’t have. I don’t know whether I could have taken him out, but I do know that I’d like to have had the option of trying. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/214 "2012-07-23T23:43:02Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > 70 people were shot out of maybe 300. 1 in 4 odds of survival is still better than 3 in 4 when armchair Rambos start firing. 300 people were in 4 theaters. He shot in 1 theater (1 bullet penetrated the wall injuring 1 person in a adjoining theater) ---
**Author:** ![Lobot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@Lobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobot)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/215 "2012-07-23T23:58:42Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > 70 people were shot out of maybe 300. 1 in 4 odds of survival is still better than 3 in 4 when armchair Rambos start firing. If that’s true, you got me there. Still, you fucking gun fetishists are welcome to fire blindly at each other, but the trouble is that the other people don’t get a say when they’re caught in the crossfire. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/216 "2012-07-24T00:05:49Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > I assume you’d choose to die over fighting back. Fine, the world needs fewer dildos. So stop acting like one. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/217 "2012-07-24T00:07:26Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So stop acting like one. I understand you know more about them than anyone else on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/218 "2012-07-24T00:09:33Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > It would be a 1.5:1 dildo:asshole ratio, assuming about even numbers of men and women. [/PEDANTRY] I bend over corrected. ---
**Author:** ![Mewl\_Dear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Mewl\_Dear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mewl_Dear)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/219 "2012-07-24T00:14:04Z")
Scene one: the joker pops up throws smoke bombs and starts firing. Scene two: morg the mighty jumps up and starts return fire. Scene three: every sane person with a gun in the theater shoots morg the mighty. Kind of a short movie. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/220 "2012-07-24T00:23:28Z")
> [@Mewl\_Dear](#): > > Scene one: the joker pops up throws smoke bombs and starts firing. > Scene two: morg the mighty jumps up and starts return fire. > Scene three: every sane person with a gun in the theater shoots morg the mighty. > Kind of a short movie. Given that the _police_ at first thought he was S.W.A.T., I’d say that was a better than even chance. I have yet to get a response to my question as to what happens when more than one person pulls out their firearm in a dark and smoky theatre, and the one that is the actual suspect is also the only one that looks like he is supposed to be doing the firing. How do y’all tell the good guys from the bad guys? When you whip out your weapon in self-defense, how does the armed guy a few rows down and over know not to shoot _you_? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=12)