# No thanks, I'll take my chances with the psychopath. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135 "2012-07-23T14:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/281 "2012-07-24T15:52:28Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Where did I claim that? > [@Morgenstern](#): > > To them, anyone armed in that theater would have been a nut for owning a gun, a bigger nut for carrying it to the theater, and an even bigger nut for\*\* thinking he could hit a target 10 yards away with a carefully aimed shot.\*\* At best, you’re ignoring the realities of the situation and just making shit up. At worst, you’re confusing bravado for competence. And you just unironically used sheepdog and sheep. Amazing. I wasn’t even referring to you with that nickname, but you happily took it on anyway. Worthless. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/282 "2012-07-24T15:52:45Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > A majority of the states which honor CCW require completion of a practical classroom course. IME this course is typically 6-8 hours of legalities and safety tips, followed by a minimal range demonstration. I have not seen any curriculum for any standard CCW license which would give any CCW holder any better chance of responding to a situation like this than any average gun owner. I’m happy to be proven wrong, but I doubt such a course would make up the majority of CCW courses. I know a bit about Colorado’s requirements, and they appear to be very similar to what I mentioned above. Hell, Massachusetts – strict-gun-laws Massachusetts – doesn’t even require the practical skills demonstration, just the classroom training. After I got my CCW, with only that theoretical education and one experience 30 years ago at a shooting range, I became legally permitted to go into any gun shop and buy anything up to a 12-gauge or an AR-15. I think that’s idiotic (and did take live-fire training before buying my first gun), but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/283 "2012-07-24T15:54:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Wow. Another lame taunt based on username, some spectacularly blatant hypocrisy and a bizarre sudden appeal to the sensibilities of the victims’ families, all crammed into such a short post. Clearly brevity is the soul of twit. Gotta try to use an approach and terminology you might understand - you know, consider the audience when forming the message? Morgensten, I’m not here to convince anybody of anything, just state my case. They can take it or leave it. Emotionally invested misinformed people normally become more vociferous in their denial even after being confronted with facts and better information. It’s a well-documented phenomenon. Nothing surprising or new here. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/284 "2012-07-24T15:56:29Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > TIL Morgenstern thinks acting in a responsible manner is creating crossfire in a crowded movie theater full of panicked people. Where did I say that? You’ve got a vivid imagination. ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/285 "2012-07-24T15:57:45Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He refuses to answer the question as to what he would… Yes, I admit am unwilling to play the “what-if” game with your stupendous fantasies. Why don’t you consider the more plausible “what-if” where just one armed theatergoer puts the bad guy down with a lucky shot? What if, then? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/286 "2012-07-24T15:57:56Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > Gotta try to use an approach and terminology you might understand - you know, consider the audience when forming the message? > > Morgensten, I’m not here to convince anybody of anything, just state my case. They can take it or leave it. Emotionally invested misinformed people normally become more vociferous in their denial even after being confronted with facts and better information. > > It’s a well-documented phenomenon. Nothing surprising or new here. Join date? July 2012, Check. Is not aware that we can go back and see what they’ve typed? Check. Resorts to petty insults? Check. Giant Internet swinging penis? Check. Superiority complex? Check. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/287 "2012-07-24T16:02:51Z")
**Bosstone** You said this. _Claiming that you can make a shot from the back of the theater to the front through smoke and a panicked crowd is not the best way to do that. Una Persson’s few posts in this thread have been vastly more rational and intelligent than yours or Mr. Sheeple’s_ (underlining mine) I challenged asking where I’d said that. You responded with this. _To them, anyone armed in that theater would have been a nut for owning a gun, a bigger nut for carrying it to the theater, and an even bigger nut for thinking he could hit a target 10 yards away with a carefully aimed shot._ If the two statements are the same to you, then we need to suspend further discussion until you’ve completd a reading comprehension course. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/288 "2012-07-24T16:04:22Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > Yes, I admit am unwilling to play the “what-if” game with your stupendous fantasies. > > Why don’t you consider the more plausible “what-if” where just one armed theatergoer puts the bad guy down with a lucky shot? > > What if, then? If guns were allowed in the theatre, you find it the possibility of there being more than one armed citizen a “stupendous fantasy”? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/289 "2012-07-24T16:08:33Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Where did I say that? You’ve got a vivid imagination. You think a smoky movie theater full of panicked people will give you an opening to take a shot at a gunman and I’m the one with the vivid imagination? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/290 "2012-07-24T16:10:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > He refuses to answer the question as to what he would do if other armed citizens in the theatre decided to respond. You are certainly the king of stupid questions. Really, some questions are so dumb as to deserve no response. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > How do you tell the good guys from the bad guys? What do you do if some other hero sees you and the gunman, wrongly determines that the well-armed person in the professional outfit is a S.W.A.T. officer or somesuch, and starts shooting at _you_? It’s pretty easy really. Even for a victim-in-the-making like you. The bad guy is the guy standing in the front shooting people in the audience. SWAT typically doesn’t shoot innocent people in the audience, at least they don’t in my state. It may come as a surprise to you, but no one in that theater had a problem identifying the shooter as the bad guy. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/291 "2012-07-24T16:12:34Z")
> [@Baal\_Houtham](#): > > People think that bringing a 3 month old infant was inexcusable, and you want to sneak in your duck? Man, since no one else has said anything, I will. This is the best post of the entire thread! I actually snort-laughed out loud. I agree that hypothetical reactions are basically useless and can be compared to Jeopardy (how numerous contestants even say that even without the buzzer timing, it’s a billion times harder than when they practiced or played along at home). Useless as this guess is :D, if I _had_ to guess what I would do in this situation, it’d probably be to play dead. I’d likely first freeze in my seat. Hopefully I’d be able to drop down to the floor (without being trampled) and lay prone as if I had been shot and killed. The thing is, “fight or flight” response isn’t really accurate. [http://www.myshrink.com/counseling-theory.php?t\_id=85](http://www.myshrink.com/counseling-theory.php?t_id=85) It’s actually extremely common _for mammalian species_ to freeze when there’s a sudden threat\* and it often is the best reaction for survival, believe it or not. After freezing, one may experience tonic immobility (which is basically playing dead while feeling disassociation), or move to flight. For most people, fight is the _last_ reaction, after freezing or fleeing are not optimal/possible. Bypassing this order (say, by immediately going into fight mode) is usually quite difficult and requires training. You’re basically going against basic instinct. - I remember the first time I consciously experienced this, and it wasn’t any actual threat, just a totally unexpected “SHIT!” When my groceries were being rung up, the lane next to me was jam-packed with the bagger falling behind. A jug of cranberry juice was either pushed or knocked over the side, falling in front of my feet where it burst open and started gushing out. I saw the whole thing happen and just froze like a statue, even though I was actively thinking, “holy shit! Wtf you doing? MOVE, dipshit! It’s on your feet now!” But I was literally incapable of actually doing any movement for ~5 seconds, even though I was trying to. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/292 "2012-07-24T16:12:51Z")
How do you know that the SWAT team won’t come in while you’re shooting at the other gunman. They see a bunch of people bleeding on the ground and you firing a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/293 "2012-07-24T16:13:02Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > ETA - a real life example that I think many people haven’t considered - once I did something SO MONUMENTALLY STUPID - I was walking into a shooting range with my dad and I was preoccupied explaining something to him about, shit I don’t know, something totally inconsequential. And both of us like the STUPIDEST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD neglected our ear protection for a fraction of a second before some guy firing one round at the other end of the range taught us in the most direct way possible why you never shoot without the earmuffs. > > An indoor range is probably acoustically very similar to a movie theater. It was like being punched in both ears at once by a crazy motivated assassin. I can’t even imagine what more than one shot would be like, and I only mean in terms of the sound in your head - forget the tear gas, the dark, the screaming people, the knowledge that you could die. The MERE SOUND of ONE HANDGUN ROUND is a physical blow and you will not do that twice. This is an excellent point that shouldn’t be overlooked. I have stupidly forgotten to put my ears back on after taking a break (alone at the range), and even though I was only firing a .22 pistol the ear-punch was a shocker. Heck, even with the ears on, someone firing a large caliber rifle at the other end of the range from me produces a physical-shock reaction. If I have to park uphill a few dozen yards from the (outdoor) range, I’ll put the earmuffs on right at the car and wear them walking down. The sound wave from a gun being fired has a punch even when you’re expecting it. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/294 "2012-07-24T16:14:13Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > You think a smoky movie theater full of panicked people will give you an opening to take a shot at a gunman and I’m the one with the vivid imagination? What part of “clear shot” confuses you? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/295 "2012-07-24T16:15:29Z")
The part where you think you’re going to have one. ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/296 "2012-07-24T16:15:30Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Join date? July 2012, Check. > > Is not aware that we can go back and see what they’ve typed? Check. > > Resorts to petty insults? Check. > > Giant Internet swinging penis? Check. > > Superiority complex? Check. Euphonius Polemic - presumptuous enough to believe anything that happens when he is not around, not on this forum or otherwise unaware of implies some wrongful stigma? Check. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/297 "2012-07-24T16:16:56Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > It’s actually extremely common _for mammalian species_ to freeze when there’s a sudden threat\* and it often is the best reaction for survival, believe it or not. > > After freezing, one may experience tonic immobility (which is basically playing dead while feeling disassociation), or move to flight. For most people, fight is the _last_ reaction, after freezing or fleeing are not optimal/possible. > > Bypassing this order (say, by immediately going into fight mode) is usually quite difficult and requires training. You’re basically going against basic instinct. > > - I remember the first time I consciously experienced this, and it wasn’t any actual threat, just a totally unexpected “SHIT!” When my groceries were being rung up, the lane next to me was jam-packed with the bagger falling behind. A jug of cranberry juice was either pushed or knocked over the side, falling in front of my feet where it burst open and started gushing out. > > I saw the whole thing happen and just froze like a statue, even though I was actively thinking, “holy shit! Wtf you doing? MOVE, dipshit! It’s on your feet now!” But I was literally incapable of actually doing any movement for ~5 seconds, even though I was trying to. Bingo. I was in a corral once where a horse started kicking out wildly. Response? “WTF?” Freeze. When slammed into by other fleeing people, continue frozen, then unblock and bolt. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/298 "2012-07-24T16:35:40Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > Euphonius Polemic - presumptuous enough to believe anything that happens when he is not around, not on this forum or otherwise unaware of implies some wrongful stigma? > > Check. You’re a fucking troll and not a particularly good one. How many different iterations have you had so far? Do you keep a tally of responses to whack off to? Bye now. Have fun. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/299 "2012-07-24T16:39:52Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > We need to convince them that there are intelligent, competent people who own guns, and that those people can act in a responsible manner in the worst of situations. **Una** already handled that. Your goal should be to convince people that _you_ are intelligent, competent and responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/300 "2012-07-24T16:46:39Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **Una** already handled that. Your goal should be to convince people that _you_ are intelligent, competent and responsible. It’s pretty hard isn’t it? I mean, look how long you’ve been trying. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=16)