# No thanks, I'll take my chances with the psychopath. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135 "2012-07-23T14:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/321 "2012-07-24T21:39:20Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > People, people. What we mere mortals don’t understand is that Heroic People like \*\*Morgenstern \*\*and \*\*kwimby \*\*have something we don’t. > Unagi! They have eels? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/322 "2012-07-24T21:41:57Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Far more common are the tales of gun owners killing each other with unloaded guns. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > What did they do, beat each other over the head with them? Maybe that should have been ‘unloaded’ guns ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/323 "2012-07-24T22:25:26Z")
> [@Lobot](#): > > That still indicates that you’re presenting a false dilemma. Not to mention, there’s the question of which point it is appropriate to shoot at the guy. After he’s thrown a smoke grenade? Could be part of an unannounced premiere event. That’s some egg on one’s face! After he’s shot someone? Well, turns out a family member is already dead in this hypothetical then. Oh and in the hypothetical scenario where every family in the cinema is armed, rather than the cinema installing airport security like measures in response to this one spotlight attack: > [@me](#): > > According to the “National Safety Council”, there were 489 children between the ages of 0 and 14 killed by guns in 1999 in the US. Of the 3385 gun deaths in 1999 between 0-19 over 200 were unintentional and over 1000 were suicides. I do not see how having a gun in the home effectively protects children. Yeah, a family with a gun is probably more at risk on average than one without. > [@kwimby](#): > > It is only human nature for idiots basking in the illumination of their unbridled imaginations to believe everyone else thinks and acts as they do. Actually, the [false consensus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False-consensus_effect) applies to pretty much everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/324 "2012-07-24T22:38:16Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > However, I notice that the years of those 5 times are in 1997, 2007, 2007, 2011, and 2012. So we have 5 reported incidents in 15 years where an armed civilian successfully stopped violent crime. Maybe there’s more, but that sampling really ain’t much, and it says something that the article had to go back to 1997 to round it out to 5 incidents. But such incidents aren’t really newsworthy, are they? [This site](http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/noframedex.html) quotes some research from the mid 90s. [Here](http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf)’s a PDF from the Cato institute published this year. It lists many examples of defensive gun usage, for good and ill, really starting on pages 8 and 9. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/325 "2012-07-24T23:07:31Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > But such incidents aren’t really newsworthy, are they? Discussing only newsworthy events ignores intentional homicide rates, for which the US is [supreme](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) among countries with a PPP above $31k. Point is, the average person living in the US, gun owner or not\*, is more likely to be a victim of an intentional homicide than the average person living in the civilised world. - While gun owners in the US may be less likely to be murdered than average, they’re more likely to be shot [during an assault](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099). > [@Una Persson](#): > > My tactic in this situation would have been to run like hell pushing Fierra ahead of me so I could shield her. Unfortunately, this may not be the most [effective tactic](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BulletproofHumanShield). It may be more helpful to distract the shooter’s attention in order to allow the child (I assume?) to make a break for it. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/326 "2012-07-24T23:18:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > [Here](http://www.cato.org/pubs/wtpapers/WP-Tough-Targets.pdf)’s a PDF from the Cato institute published this year. It lists many examples of defensive gun usage, for good and ill, really starting on pages 8 and 9. That’s very interesting, and fair enough, at least as far as suggesting that only finding 5 incidents to report is meaningful or not. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/327 "2012-07-24T23:20:55Z")
Oh, I forgot… > [@Morgenstern](#): > > would never doing anything to put an innocent person in danger Would you not even moving ‘ZIG’? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/328 "2012-07-25T00:19:48Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Yeah, a family with a gun is probably more at risk on average than one without. By that logic, all police officers should turn in their firearms to the duty officer when their shift ends. Or are police somehow superhuman, the cream of the cream, far more trustworthy and competent then the drooling hoi polli? > [@gamerunknown](#): > > Discussing only newsworthy events ignores intentional homicide rates, for which the US is [supreme](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate) among countries with a PPP above $31k. Point is, the average person living in the US, gun owner or not\*, is more likely to be a victim of an intentional homicide than the average person living in the civilised world. > > - While gun owners in the US may be less likely to be murdered than average, they’re more likely to be shot [during an assault](http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099). . The United States has more _non-gun_ homicides than homicides from all causes in western Europe and Japan combined, despite the latter having half again the population of the US. The US doesn’t have a gun problem, it has a violence problem. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/329 "2012-07-25T00:20:42Z")
That’d be an even better way to protect your family. Stand up and shout, “You have no chance. MAKE YOUR TIME!” That should give the guy pause to reflect on the awesomeness of Catz. > [@Lumpy](#): > > The US doesn’t have a gun problem, it has a violence problem. The relative ease with which anybody in the populace can be armed sure doesn’t help. Look at the assholes in this very thread. They’re Exhibits A and B on how the average American dumbass responds to being so easily armed. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/330 "2012-07-25T00:23:28Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > They have eels? 😕 Their hovercrafts are full of 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/331 "2012-07-25T00:51:29Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > Unfortunately, this may not be the most [effective tactic](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BulletproofHumanShield). It may be more helpful to distract the shooter’s attention in order to allow the child (I assume?) to make a break for it. Partner, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/332 "2012-07-25T02:02:39Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > The relative ease with which anybody in the populace can be armed sure doesn’t help. Look at the assholes in this very thread. They’re Exhibits A and B on how the average American dumbass responds to being so easily armed. Eh, I’m pretty sure they’d piss their pants same as anyone else. It’s so very easy to armchair quarterback and say “This is how I would have done it” from the comfort of your home. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/333 "2012-07-25T02:44:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Partner, IIRC. Sex goddess of exquisite perversions, more like. 😃 And she would probably have typed my post the same way, except she would have been trying to shield me instead. That’s the way we are. I wasn’t saying I would be jumping in front of the bullets saying “It’s fiddler crab season! Look at me, I’m a fiddler crab!”[sup]1[/sup], but just that I’d be pushing her ahead of me with me between her and the assailant. [sub]1) Anyone remember that cartoon?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/334 "2012-07-25T02:53:09Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Sex goddess of exquisite perversions, more like. 😃 > > And she would probably have typed my post the same way, except she would have been trying to shield me instead. That’s the way we are. > > I wasn’t saying I would be jumping in front of the bullets saying “It’s fiddler crab season! Look at me, I’m a fiddler crab!”[sup]1[/sup], but just that I’d be pushing her ahead of me with me between her and the assailant. > [sub]1) Anyone remember that cartoon?[/sub] Pronoun trouble! ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/335 "2012-07-25T03:33:57Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > By that logic, all police officers should turn in their firearms to the duty officer when their shift ends. Or are police somehow superhuman, the cream of the cream, far more trustworthy and competent then the drooling hoi polli? . . . Well, yes, as a matter of fact. They’ve received training, and are also closely scrutinized and supervised. They’re far more aware of the consequences of their actions than…ahem…some people in this thread. When a policeman walks in to a fast-food restaurant with a big pistol on his hip, I’m a _little_ nervous. But when Joe the Plumber does, I get the hell out of there. I know that the policeman knows how to use his weapon; I have no such assurance re Bubba Joe. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/336 "2012-07-25T03:36:13Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > Pronoun trouble! 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/337 "2012-07-25T03:42:45Z")
Your last sentence has a whole lot of them, that’s the best I can figure. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/338 "2012-07-25T03:51:28Z")
I think I can clear this up: **Una** is a girl. **Fierra** is also a [del]sex goddess of exquisite perversions[/del] girl. I take it you are all reassured, and we can get on with arguing. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/339 "2012-07-25T04:09:47Z")
I knew that already. I’m still confused. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2012, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/340 "2012-07-25T04:25:22Z")
“Look at me, I’m a fiddler crab!” - Daffy Duck “Pronoun trouble.” - Daffy Duck _Connect the dots, people!_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=18)