# No thanks, I'll take my chances with the psychopath. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135 "2012-07-23T14:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/41 "2012-07-23T16:11:53Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Let me ask this question. > If there had been an off-duty, armed Aurora police officer in the theater, what would you expected him to do in this situation? His job, which he is trained to do, unlike most of the poor souls in that theater, and unlike the vast majority of those with concealed-carry permits. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/42 "2012-07-23T16:14:02Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Hve you ever seen the [muzzle flash](http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7ARB9w2CDkeNp5FPBedG-RHnGF8UWQP41NoJAFEvoUMoMgir3) from an AR-15/M-16 at night (in a dark theater)? Now throw in the flashing lights from the movie and the reflections from the smoke grenades and the people running around in panic between, behind and around the both of you. Even Dirty Harry would hold off firing back in a case like that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/43 "2012-07-23T16:17:48Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Hve you ever seen the [muzzle flash](http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7ARB9w2CDkeNp5FPBedG-RHnGF8UWQP41NoJAFEvoUMoMgir3) from an AR-15/M-16 at night (in a dark theater)? Have you ever tried to focus on a target after seeing something like that up close and personal? The only things you’d be aiming at are the spots before your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/44 "2012-07-23T16:21:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Now throw in the flashing lights from the movie and the reflections from the smoke grenades and the people running around in panic between, behind and around the both of you. Even Dirty Harry would hold off firing back in a case like that. And take into account that this was the first showing of probably the biggest movie this summer and you’re got an extremely crowded, packed, probably sold out movie theater. Thought experiment … go to your local movie theater and attend a sold out show. At the end, when everybody stands up to leave, be in the middle of the theater and see who clean a hot you can get to the front by the screen. Now imagine that same theater fulled with panicked people trying to get out. That’s what your dealing with. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/45 "2012-07-23T16:23:47Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Now throw in the flashing lights from the movie and the reflections from the smoke grenades and the people running around in panic between, behind and around the both of you. Even Dirty Harry would hold off firing back in a case like that. Most people who legally carry concealed firearms have had, at the least, a minimum of training. They can better weigh the situation and assess the risks as it unfolds before them than we can. Everyone with a gun isn’t looking for a shootout at the OK Corral. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/46 "2012-07-23T16:28:56Z")
Which part of CCW training covers shootouts wih better armed opponents in dark, crowded rooms? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/47 "2012-07-23T16:29:12Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Most people who legally carry concealed firearms have had, at the least, a minimum of training. I’m sorry, but _what??_ What state requires the sort of training that would make you even remotely capable of handling a situation like this using your personal weapon of choice? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/48 "2012-07-23T16:33:25Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _how would you decide who to shoot at?_ The little girl with the calculus book, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/49 "2012-07-23T16:39:52Z")
Well she shouldn’t have been in that neighborhood that late at night. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/50 "2012-07-23T16:45:41Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Most people who legally carry concealed firearms have had, at the least, a minimum of training. They can better weigh the situation and assess the risks as it unfolds before them than we can. Everyone with a gun isn’t looking for a shootout at the OK Corral. What absolute bollocks. Shooting targets on a range gives zero experience or ability to react under fire. I’ve been shooting guns since I was a wee lad and spent 23 years in the military, during part of which time I taught M-16 and worked as a range coach, as well as being a veteran. I also worked as an auxiliary police officer for two years and received firearm training from them. I would say I have adequate training and experience with guns, but could not say with certainty how I would react in that sort of chaotic situation. Adrenaline cancels most good intentions, and unless one is trained to control what happens when it kicks in, all bets are off. You’re talking out of your ass, friend. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/51 "2012-07-23T16:48:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry, but _what??_ What state requires the sort of training that would make you even remotely capable of handling a situation like this using your personal weapon of choice? Well, you got me there. Most states don’t make concealed permit candidates face off in gunfights with an adversary in full ballistic armor toting an AR-15 with a 100 round mag, tossing tear gas, as part of their training. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/52 "2012-07-23T16:55:33Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Well, you got me there. Most states don’t make concealed permit candidates face off in gunfights with an adversary in full ballistic armor toting an AR-15 with a 100 round mag, tossing tear gas, as part of their training. Then why the hell did you say this: > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Most people who legally carry concealed firearms have had, at the least, a minimum of training. They can better weigh the situation and assess the risks as it unfolds before them than we can. What type of minimal training were you actually referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/53 "2012-07-23T16:59:45Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Use common sense and police training which is a lot more than you’re gonna get from your run-of-the-mill asshole who thinks he’s Clint Eastwood. I’ll let you in on a secret. Don’t tell anyone please. I work with a lot of cops. It’s an occupational hazard. There is a significant percentage of cops I work with that in a gunfight I would rather take their weapon by force and hand it to some random citizen than have them help me. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/54 "2012-07-23T17:07:51Z")
**Czarcasm** , Seriously, are you being deliberately obtuse? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/55 "2012-07-23T17:10:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sorry, but _what??_ What state requires the sort of training that would make you even remotely capable of handling a situation like this using your personal weapon of choice? I’ve had the South Carolina CCW course, which is an all day sort of thing and qualifies you for a Florida CCW as well, which qualifies you for a bunch of other states. So I’d imagine it’s pretty similar to most CCW courses. Er, no. I learned not to accidentally shoot people who are standing behind my target, where I can and cannot concealed carry, not to go pointing guns at people like an asshole, and… that’s about it. I certainly didn’t learn how to take out an armed assailant in the dark through teargas, body armor, and hundreds of screaming panicked people. “Shoot the guy shooting at you”? Come on, son. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/56 "2012-07-23T17:10:39Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > **Czarcasm** , Seriously, are you being deliberately obtuse? Considering your responses so far, I think we should have a vote: Which of us seems to be obtuse here, folks? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/57 "2012-07-23T17:11:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Considering your responses so far, I think we should have a vote: > Which of us seems to be obtuse here, folks? Grandstanding is such an awesome tactic dude. On the other hand, IF you choose to lay down and be shot, I’m all for it. If you choose to fight back when you have no other option, I’m for that too. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/58 "2012-07-23T17:12:42Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Are the active duty military who were present run-of-the-mill assholes too? Generally, yes. Most people in the military aren’t front line infantry, much less something like special forces. Some military clerk or technician is going to act much like the civilian version. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/59 "2012-07-23T17:13:48Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > I’ve had the South Carolina CCW course, which is an all day sort of thing and qualifies you for a Florida CCW as well, which qualifies you for a bunch of other states. So I’d imagine it’s pretty similar to most CCW courses. On-topic and as a point of interest, how many states require a CCW course before issuing a handgun license? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/60 "2012-07-23T17:14:41Z")
I took a defensive driving course in high school; that’s why I’m confident I could win the Indy 500 any time I want. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=4)