# No thanks, I'll take my chances with the psychopath. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135 "2012-07-23T14:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/121 "2012-07-23T19:14:44Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > We’ve already established that any shot requires the target be identified and the line of sight uninterrupted. That’s pretty much the rule followed by every responsible gun owner. The general rumble here seems to think that guns and wild ass over the head shooting is the norm. Far from it. And most everyone else seems to agree that being able to identify the target and get a clear line of sight in this incidence would have been damn near impossible (tear gas, unreliable light, mass confusion and jostling, moving target). ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/122 "2012-07-23T19:15:07Z")
And you honestly think in a crowded, dark, smoky movie theater IDing the shooter and having an uninterrupted line of sight will be possible? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/123 "2012-07-23T19:15:46Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > And some other theater patron thinks “holy tapdancing fuck, there’s two shooters!” and pulls out their own gun and suddenly you’ve got that built-in chest ventilation shaft you’ve always wanted. > > I put the question “would people shooting have helped in this situation” to my coworker, a retired state police major with +30 years in law enforcement. > > What he said? “Oh, God, no.” Because, besides all the points listed in \*\*Tarwater’\*\*s most excellent post, as things were happening law enforcement didn’t know if the guy was a loner or working with one or more accomplices and would likely have nabbed anyone waving a gun around. And if God forbid you hit someone besides the gunman, law enforcement isn’t gonna just let you say “oopsie, my bad,” and let you go on your merry way. Certainly it’s a bad idea. However, given the choice between being a victim or surviving, I’m firing back. My family also has LEOs in it. And their opinion is that they would have taken the shot if the opportunity presented itself. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/124 "2012-07-23T19:17:02Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > And you honestly think in a crowded, dark, smoky movie theater IDing the shooter and having an uninterrupted line of sight will be possible? Clearly, it’s not beyond possibility. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/125 "2012-07-23T19:24:14Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > That was sort of my point. Way to ruin the joke. It was aimed at the original poster. I hadn’t seen your joke. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/126 "2012-07-23T19:24:34Z")
Surviving=not getting killed, which people managed without guns. About the only way that opportunity was gonna present itself was if you were standing right next to the guy, which would also mean he’d have a really great opportunity to plug you at point-blank range if you’re in front of him. YOu’d be better off indulging your hero complex by trying to tackle him or wrestling a long gun off him, because even if you were behind him or quicker on the draw you’d have to hope your gun had enough grunt to get through his armor. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/127 "2012-07-23T19:25:48Z")
If Jason Statham can do it, so can I. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/128 "2012-07-23T19:30:04Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Clearly, it’s not beyond possibility. A lot of things are not beyond possibility. You do not inspire much confidence. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/129 "2012-07-23T19:32:19Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Clearly, it’s not beyond possibility. No, the stars could align, and an angel could part the crowd and the angel’s halo could brighten the dark just enough to see… ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/130 "2012-07-23T19:35:45Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > Surviving=not getting killed, which people managed without guns. > > About the only way that opportunity was gonna present itself was if you were standing right next to the guy, which would also mean he’d have a really great opportunity to plug you at point-blank range if you’re in front of him. YOu’d be better off indulging your hero complex by trying to tackle him or wrestling a long gun off him, because even if you were behind him or quicker on the draw you’d have to hope your gun had enough grunt to get through his armor. Unfortunately, at the time of this tragedy, most likely no one in the theater realized the shooter had ballistic armor on. Any return fire would undoubtedly be from concealed locations aimed at the center mass of the shooter. I seriously doubt anyone would stand up and return fire. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/131 "2012-07-23T19:37:54Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > A lot of things are not beyond possibility. You do not inspire much confidence. What confidence. If the guy is shooting at you, you’re probably going to die. If he’s not shooting at you, crawl like hell away from the gunfire. But if you’re being shot at, and you have a weapon, you have two choices. Die or try. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/132 "2012-07-23T19:45:26Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > What confidence. If the guy is shooting at you, you’re probably going to die. If he’s not shooting at you, crawl like hell away from the gunfire. But if you’re being shot at, and you have a weapon, you have two choices. Die or try. You keep ignoring the fact that there are more choices, and these choices do not go away just because you have a gun in your possession. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/133 "2012-07-23T19:49:26Z")
That’s one of the dumbest lines I’ve ever heard. And you still haven’t explained why you think visibility will be high enough that an armed patron will be able to quickly and accurately ID the attacker and be able to disable him without harming anyone else or becoming the target of any other heroic armed patrons or a police force. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/134 "2012-07-23T19:51:59Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > _how would you decide who to shoot at?_ > [@Steve\_MB](#): > > The little girl with the calculus book, obviously. > [@Mister\_Owl](#): > > This is the best post in this entire thread. I concur. [But in the interest of pedantry](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRXNNqNfQBs), it should be quantum physics books (or rather, one quantum physics book and one relativity book). ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/135 "2012-07-23T19:52:08Z")
And what other reasonable choices do you if the guy is shooting at you? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/136 "2012-07-23T19:55:58Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > And what other reasonable choices do you if the guy is shooting at you? [This thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=659520) lists a few other reasonable choices that apply to this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/137 "2012-07-23T19:56:10Z")
As I said - rush him. When in doubt, charge. You don’t even need a gun. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/138 "2012-07-23T20:00:53Z")
[del]Lucifer[/del] Morgenstern, I sympathize with your position, at least once you’ve qualified it back down to wanting to have a weapon for that one unlikely opportunity to get off a shot. But really, do you actually expect cinema houses to start allowing guns indoors, instead of just beefing up their security practices to intercept loonies coming in? Edit to add, absent the tear gas, I would look at rushing him. Even if I get gutshot, I might draw fire long enough to let someone else tackle him. With the tear gas, I’d be less likely to get very far with that, but also in lousy shape to shoot a hypothetical gun anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/139 "2012-07-23T20:03:50Z")
Okay, you’re being shot at. You see the bullets striking inches from your head. What would you do **Czarcasm**? What about your family right there beside you? You’ve got a gun, a bat and a bible. Your move. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/140 "2012-07-23T20:04:26Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Concealed carry training (at least in Texas) is a joke and pretty much an NRA recruiting seminar. I got mine in Texas and nobody mentioned anything about the NRA. It was pretty much a joke though. We just went over the relevant laws and even a blind person could pass the shooting test. Assuming I still had my CHL and I was in the theater at the time, no, I probably wouldn’t try returning fire because the chance of missing and hitting an innocent bystander would be too great. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=8)