# No thanks, I'll take my chances with the psychopath. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135 "2012-07-23T14:22:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/161 "2012-07-23T20:29:54Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Call them either Paul Reubens or Fred Willards, since they’re clearly masturbating in a movie theater. Like a motherfuck? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/162 "2012-07-23T20:43:50Z")
Was Holmes in fact wearing body armor? I’ve read claims (from pro-gun sources, so who knows?) that the media misidentified a tactical vest- basically a jacket with lots of handy pockets and loops- as body armor. True or not? If I were in a crowd of unarmed people and a gunman came in and started shooting scores of people, it would not be particularly comforting for me to know that at least I was safe from crossfire. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/163 "2012-07-23T20:47:38Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Several of them were active military. They have been known to handle similar situations in the past. Please list 3 “similar situations” that any active military person has ever “handled”; it should make for interesting reading. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/164 "2012-07-23T20:51:38Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > According to Joe (my coworker) it would be involuntary manslaughter if you killed someone, and reckless endangerment if you wounded someone or were shooting but didn’t hit anyone. (wouldn’t matter if it was a civilian or an off-duty LEO) > > And that’s another reason why the police would not be happy: they’d have to round up everyone who was shooting, haul them to the station, confiscate their weapons, and check to see if they matched up to bullets found in the victims or at the scene. It would chew up a lot of time and manpower that could better be used on the “real” crime. That makes sense. Thanks for the information. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/165 "2012-07-23T20:53:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Please list 3 “similar situations” that any active military person has ever “handled”; it should make for interesting reading. Thanks. Well, there were those guys in _Inglorious Basterds_…Kinda similar. ---
**Author:** ![kwimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dc4da7/32.png) [@kwimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kwimby)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/166 "2012-07-23T21:00:30Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > The general rumble here seems to think that guns and wild ass over the head shooting is the norm. Far from it. It is only human nature for idiots basking in the illumination of their unbridled imaginations to believe everyone else thinks and acts as they do. James Holmes was standing front and center of the screen during the entire rampage, an easy target with no innocent bystanders anywhere near him. An upward trajectory shot from the audience anywhere in the front rows would have held little-to-no risk to anyone in that audience or anyone in an adjoining room, for that matter. Other areas of the room would invoke greater challenges to clearing the shot, but it could have been an easy shot from almost anywhere in the room, depending on the weapon at your disposal and your skill with it. Most would be advised against it, but ruling it out by default by way of some of the nonsense posted here is absurd, if not exemplary of the anti-gun crowd gathered in this place. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/167 "2012-07-23T21:01:41Z")
Okay, I’m on board with pulling out my nine and ganking that mother fucker. What I want to know is do I utter, “Biff! Pow! Show’s over, pal!” before or after I pose atop his lifeless body? ---
**Author:** ![Buttercup\_Smith](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buttercup_smith/32/473_2.png) [@Buttercup\_Smith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buttercup_Smith)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/168 "2012-07-23T21:15:43Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What I want to know is how he came in the fire exit. Aren’t those supposed to be locked from the outside? My understanding is he bought a ticket and went out the emergency exit proping it open with a TP or PT roll. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/169 "2012-07-23T21:23:56Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > It is only human nature for idiots basking in the illumination of their unbridled imaginations to believe everyone else thinks and acts as they do. > > James Holmes was standing front and center of the screen during the entire rampage, an easy target with no innocent bystanders anywhere near him. An upward trajectory shot from the audience anywhere in the front rows would have held little-to-no risk to anyone in that audience or anyone in an adjoining room, for that matter. Other areas of the room would invoke greater challenges to clearing the shot, but it could have been an easy shot from almost anywhere in the room, depending on the weapon at your disposal and your skill with it. > > Most would be advised against it, but ruling it out by default by way of some of the nonsense posted here is absurd, if not exemplary of the anti-gun crowd gathered in this place. Considering all the entrances and exits a theatre might have, what is the optimal number of armed citizens, and how should they be dispersed? Also, how do we stop the gunman from ducking and moving into the screaming crowd if we don’t get him with the first head shot? Also, if more than one armed citizen responds, how do we tell the good guys from the bad guys? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/170 "2012-07-23T21:24:52Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What I want to know is how he came in the fire exit. Aren’t those supposed to be locked from the outside? I assumed from context that he came in one of the regular side exits (that some styles of theaters have), perhaps as regular patrons were leaving from another show. ETA: :smack: Shoulda read further. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/171 "2012-07-23T21:30:13Z")
> [@kwimby](#): > > James Holmes was standing front and center of the screen during the entire rampage, an easy target with no innocent bystanders anywhere near him. An upward trajectory shot from the audience anywhere in the front rows would have held little-to-no risk to anyone in that audience or anyone in an adjoining room, for that matter. Where are you getting an “upward trajectory”? If he’s at the front of the screening room, he’s almost level with them. As for the “easy headshot” you presented in your first post, you’re theorizing an expert level shot. “Anywhere in the front rows” can be upwards of 10-20 yards in most theaters. Combined with the effects of adrenaline, you’re going to be lucky to be calm enough to get a center mass shot, much less a headshot. And that’s assuming you don’t get jumpy from the thought the guy with the assault rifle spots you. And it also assumes no other “hero” in the audience decides you’re an accomplice and tries to interfere and that you’re well clear of any other audience members seated in the front rows. Anti-gun? How about anti-stupid? I’ve found this board generally pro-gun, though there are vocal posters on both sides. I’ve got a CHL and I think your scenario laughably absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/172 "2012-07-23T21:40:36Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Anti-gun? How about anti-stupid? I’ve found this board generally pro-gun, though there are vocal posters on both sides. I’ve got a CHL and I think your scenario laughably absurd. Keep in mind that this is the dude who told us the psycho chose this theater because of its anti-gun policy. Either he’s a telepath, or he’s in cahoots with the psycho, or he’s talking out his ass; there’s no fourth possibility. Also, **Morganstern** , when every single person in the thread (except for the **Kwimby** dude who as mentioned isn’t exactly full of credibility) is telling you how wrong you are, maybe it’s worth taking a step back and rethinking both what you’re saying and how it’s coming across? ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/173 "2012-07-23T21:47:44Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Several of them were active military. They have been known to handle similar situations in the past. Not to belabor the point, but I was active military, and my weapons training amounted to putting 120 rounds through a beat-up M16 in basic training. I’m not alone, either – nearly everyone in the Navy and Air Force got an equal amount of worthless training, and I’d guess a good chunk of the Army too. The portion of the military that gets combat training is really quite small. Unless you know more about these servicemembers, citing their duty status is irrelevant. > [@Morgenstern](#): > > Which is exactly what I’ve been saying. Except for one thing. Just before the “I’m dead” I’ll take a shot at him and hope he’s the one who dies. Roughly 17 million people went to see the Batman movie on opening weekend, despite the shooting. Of those, 12 were killed. And that’s one movie, on one weekend. If I were inclined to carry a concealed weapon, the odds of me even having an opportunity to use it at a movie theater are astronomically small. And if I were the 1 in a billion actually getting shot at, you’re saying I’m basically just pointing it at the bad guy as a last resort and “hoping” he’s the one who dies?" Makes me want to carry even less. I know this isn’t really comfort to the families of the victims, but shootings like this are so exceedingly rare that the picture of an America where 100% of average citizens carry weapons, and the picture of an America where 0% of average citizens carry weapons, are basically the same picture. The only difference is that in one picture, people don’t waste countless hours making little explosions in their hands in order to prepare for a scenario that will essentially never happen. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/174 "2012-07-23T21:47:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Keep in mind that this is the dude who told us the psycho chose this theater because of its anti-gun policy. Either he’s a telepath, or he’s in cahoots with the psycho, or he’s talking out his ass; there’s no fourth possibility. > > Also, **Morganstern** , when every single person in the thread (except for the **Kwimby** dude who as mentioned isn’t exactly full of credibility) is telling you how wrong you are, maybe it’s worth taking a step back and rethinking both what you’re saying and how it’s coming across? That’s the last thing I’m worried about. My position remains, if I have no other choice but becoming a victim, I’m fighting back. And I have no doubt I can do it in a safe and accurate manner. Whether I’m successful in terminating the threat might be an issue, but a 10 to 15 yard shot is very doable and a reasonable reaction considering the exigences of the situation and the finality of the result. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/175 "2012-07-23T21:52:58Z")
And people who watch Jeopardy at home are convinced they could walk away with all the money if they were behind the podium. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/176 "2012-07-23T21:53:49Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > And I have no doubt I can do it in a safe and accurate manner. Ha. You use a lot of words to say that killing other people is a risk you’re willing to take. How noble. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/177 "2012-07-23T22:01:56Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Ha. > > You use a lot of words to say that killing other people is a risk you’re willing to take. How noble. You’ve never shot a gun have you? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/178 "2012-07-23T22:05:36Z")
I have, and I’ve been shot, and I agree with him. What do I win? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/179 "2012-07-23T22:06:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I have, and I’ve been shot, and I agree with him. What do I win? A new user name? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135/180 "2012-07-23T22:07:10Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Whether I’m successful in terminating the threat might be an issue, but a 10 to 15 yard shot is very doable and a reasonable reaction considering the exigences of the situation and the finality of the result. Ok, I’ll hang up the smartass hat for a second to address this. There are 75-100 people on your side, and one on his side. The advantage is his: if it twitches, he shoots it. As for your position: if it twitches, you must identify friend/foe and deliver ordnance as appropriate upon an armored target with limited vulnerability–and you don’t even know about the body armor yet; and no way in hell are you getting headshots with a pistol with any kind of certainty except under optimal conditions against a well-lit, stationary target. Handgun training will direct your aim to a body shot. You fire, hit armor, he returns fire, you die. You have a decision to make, he doesn’t. Unless you can approach from outside his field of vision and snipe him, he wins every time. And because you can’t risk popping your head up to look at him and check on his position, because he’ll spray your locale when you twitch, you’re left with only an ambush strategy and laying low. If he goes on the hunt, which at that point is the only way for you to see him, you see each other at the same time, again you lose. Theonly way to win this one is for everyone to recognize, immediately, that he’s not part of the film, that he’s not just some troll spraying blanks, that he has a finite number of shots before reloading, and that he needs to be rushed by everyone in the theater. That sort of realization takes some time to get to, which is why it can work against hijackers on a plane that are not actively killing anyone, and not in a movie house under attack. Your position is all bravado, dude. Logistically there can be no hero. This guy could probably have gotten away if he’d just left the car running, popped in, gassed and sprayed a few magazines, and then left the same way he entered. Because nobody would even be able to feel their own feet for several minutes after that kind of terror. You need to get yourself into some danger I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thanks-ill-take-my-chances-with-the-psychopath/629135.md?page=10)