# No, that's not hacking **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 11, 2013, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594 "2013-03-11T01:15:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/21 "2013-03-11T21:24:29Z")
Then there was the time I was playing [Uplink](http://www.introversion.co.uk/uplink/) on the laptop in bed one night and the wife asked what I was doing. I was on the screen setting up bounces on proxy servers on the global map. Looks just like it does on TV and in the movies. What else was I to say? šŸ˜ƒ ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/22 "2013-03-11T22:01:17Z")
> [@hotflungwok](#): > > This has to be fake. It just keeps getting sillier as it goes on. Cmon, thereā€™s no way this is meant to be serious. Right? Please? Someone say it aint soā€¦ > [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Edit: Oh god thatā€™s a parody, isnā€™t it? The article in question is [widely cited](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adequacy.org) and the source has a pronounced reputation. I couldnā€™t have a greater belief in the seriousness of that essay. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/23 "2013-03-11T22:04:13Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I was originally bothered by these uses of the term hack, but is become ubiquitous to the point that itā€™s just not worth fighting anymore. Yeah, to someone knowledgable in the field, itā€™s worth having different terms, but to your average user who left their facebook open or accidentally gave away their email password or whatever, why does it matter? Even in those cases, itā€™s usually pretty clear what happened. ā€œMy WoW account was hacked!ā€ Well, actually, it was probably phished or cracked, but all theyā€™re really saying is someone gained access to it without their consent. Unless weā€™re actually talking about account security, that amount of specificity doesnā€™t really matter. It matters because it leaves us without a clear, succinct way to refer to people who create elegant and complicated code or hardware, and it maligns people who are doing creative and constructive work. Hacking has absolutely bupkus to do with breaching account security, or gaining access to accounts without consent (although some of the skills associated with hacking may be used for cracking). Itā€™s no different than if the press started referring to people who bomb buildings as ā€œarchitectsā€, or to people who sabotage radio and television stations as ā€œbroadcastersā€. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/24 "2013-03-11T22:19:04Z")
Iā€™ve been around long enough to remember the original meaning of ā€œhackerā€ with respect to computers. A hacker was a programmer who had no knowledge or discipline about software- someone who would flail away at a piece of code until it more-or-less worked. It was not a complimentary term. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2013, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/25 "2013-03-11T22:51:09Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Iā€™ve been around long enough to remember the original meaning of ā€œhackerā€ with respect to computers. A hacker was a programmer who had no knowledge or discipline about software- someone who would flail away at a piece of code until it more-or-less worked. It was not a complimentary term. The term ā€œhackā€ originally meant a quick job that works, but not well. The term ā€œ[hacker](http://catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html)ā€, on the other hand originally meant > [@](#): > > 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary. RFC1392, the Internet Usersā€™ Glossary, usefully amplifies this as: A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/26 "2013-03-12T02:10:58Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > The term ā€œhackā€ originally meant a quick job that works, but not well. The term ā€œ[hacker](http://catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html)ā€, on the other hand originally meant. . . Thatā€™s not how people used it when I started getting involved with computers in the early seventies. It was used more like the term is used in golf: as a derogatory term for someone who doesnā€™t know what heā€™s doing. I remember when I got my first job after college in 1981, the head engineer for my company was dismayed when someone called him a hacker. I remember being surprised when people started using the term as a source of pride, which I think started happening in the mid-eighties. In any case, words change meaning through usage, and thereā€™s little anyone can do about it. It often happens when the jargon of an inside group becomes popularized. I wonder whether carnival performers get upset about whatā€™s happened to the word ā€œgeek.ā€ ---
**Author:** ![tellyworth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@tellyworth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tellyworth)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/27 "2013-03-12T02:20:41Z")
All three meanings are widely used in software development and security. I thought everyone stopped being pedantic about it back when Slashdot was in fashion. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/28 "2013-03-12T02:40:43Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The article in question is [widely cited](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adequacy.org) and the source has a pronounced reputation. I couldnā€™t have a greater belief in the seriousness of that essay. Sure you could, if you were super-gullible. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/29 "2013-03-12T05:14:48Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Thatā€™s not how people used it when I started getting involved with computers in the early seventies. It was used more like the term is used in golf: as a derogatory term for someone who doesnā€™t know what heā€™s doing. I remember when I got my first job after college in 1981, the head engineer for my company was dismayed when someone called him a hacker. I remember being surprised when people started using the term as a source of pride, which I think started happening in the mid-eighties. The term was used as source of pride back in the 60s, and possibly even used in a similar sense by ham radio and electronic tinkerers in the mid 50s. The mid 80s was a time when there seemed to be an explosion of people claiming to be hackers but without the drive or skills (what would later be called wannabees). ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/30 "2013-03-12T05:28:10Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > The article in question is [widely cited](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adequacy.org) and the source has a pronounced reputation. I couldnā€™t have a greater belief in the seriousness of that essay. My guess is that it was written with tongue firmly interfaced with cheek, but taken seriously by paranoid oldsters. btw, Iā€™m hacking my life by shutting this laptop for the night. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/31 "2013-03-12T13:52:01Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Thatā€™s not how people used it when I started getting involved with computers in the early seventies. It was used more like the term is used in golf: as a derogatory term for someone who doesnā€™t know what heā€™s doing. I remember when I got my first job after college in 1981, the head engineer for my company was dismayed when someone called him a hacker. I remember being surprised when people started using the term as a source of pride, which I think started happening in the mid-eighties. Nope, the term was often a source of pride ā€“ for example, you might be called an ace Lisp hacker if you were really good at the language. A ā€œhackā€ on the other hand, was a bit of clever but dubious programming. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/32 "2013-03-12T14:17:52Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > Thatā€™s not how people used it when I started getting involved with computers in the early seventies. It was used more like the term is used in golf: as a derogatory term for someone who doesnā€™t know what heā€™s doing. I doubt that. The Florida legislature was explicitly targeting ā€œhackersā€ when it passed the Computer Crimes Act (the first computer-specific criminal legislation) in 1977. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/33 "2013-03-12T15:53:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I doubt that. The Florida legislature was explicitly targeting ā€œhackersā€ when it passed the Computer Crimes Act (the first computer-specific criminal legislation) in 1977. Really? Because the text is on-line and I canā€™t find the term ā€œhackersā€ in it. I have a copy of ā€œThe New Hackerā€™s Dictionaryā€ by Guy Steele and in 1991, they were still fighting the good fight, trying to deprecate the use of ā€œhackerā€ for malicious computer activities and substitute ā€œcrackerā€ instead. Obviously they lost the battle, but itā€™s pretty clear that at least at MIT (which is all that counts :-), hacker retained its original meaning at least into the 80ā€™s. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/34 "2013-03-12T16:31:16Z")
Not in the legislative findings (F.S. 815.02), but in the committee reports and floor debate. I requested a copy of the full legislative record from the Florida Senate archives because I was writing a paper about the statute. ETA: you can find a copy of the Senate report for the CFAA, the federal eqivalent, online, which says much the same thing. Itā€™s in 1986 U.S.C.C.A.N. 2479 at 2488. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/35 "2013-03-12T16:46:52Z")
ā€¦ ā€¦ ā€¦ ā€¦ how about a nice game of chess? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/36 "2013-03-12T16:50:27Z")
No. Global thermonuclear war. ---
**Author:** ![martu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@martu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/martu)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/37 "2013-03-12T17:17:34Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Nope, the term was often a source of pride ā€“ for example, you might be called an ace Lisp hacker if you were really good at the language. A ā€œhackā€ on the other hand, was a bit of clever but dubious programming. A ā€œhackā€ to me does not necessarily mean a clever piece of programming but writing some code that gets the job done while not doing the job properly. For example, putting some business rules in the database when all business rules should be in a services layer. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2013, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/38 "2013-03-12T22:57:35Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I have a copy of ā€œThe New Hackerā€™s Dictionaryā€ by Guy Steele and in 1991, they were still fighting the good fight, trying to deprecate the use of ā€œhackerā€ for malicious computer activities and substitute ā€œcrackerā€ instead. Obviously they lost the battle, but itā€™s pretty clear that at least at MIT (which is all that counts :-), hacker retained its original meaning at least into the 80ā€™s. They lost that battle a lo-o-o-o-o-ong time ago. When I was first programming in 1980, ā€œhackerā€ was the old common term used by business programmers (application, systems tech, and security types), to refer to people trying to hack their way into the system with malicious intent. Ivory tower types who are desperate to keep the word for themselves remind me, a bit, of the Evangelical Christians who bristle at the phrase ā€œFundamentalist Muslimsā€ on the grounds that The Fundamentals were an explicitly Christian set of books. The word has flown, (often before the birth of some of its more rigid adherents), and the rest of us are not going to give it back. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594/39 "2013-03-13T00:26:37Z")
> [@digs](#): > > > [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > > > The article in question is [widely cited](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adequacy.org) and the source has a pronounced reputation. I couldnā€™t have a greater belief in the seriousness of that essay. > > My guess is that it was written with tongue firmly interfaced with cheek, but taken seriously by paranoid oldsters. Click the link and you wonā€™t have to guess. Apparently that was the first article penned by [Adequacy.org](http://Adequacy.org) which achieved internet notoriety. For more on Adequacyā€™s _modus operandi_ see [The Adequacy Style Troll (AST): A Brief Refresher](http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/7/18/205013/523). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-thats-not-hacking/652594.md?page=1)