# No, the derivation does NOT appear in any of those sources. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 28, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566 "2004-05-28T20:03:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/1 "2004-05-28T20:03:55Z")
To my dear advisor: It’s not in your former student’s thesis. It doesn’t matter how many times you tell me to check, or how many different details that have come up in various discussions that you think she included. She clearly did this calculation, but aside from one utterly pointless diagram, she doesn’t include _any_ detail about what she did. I don’t have to check again, _it is not there._ I swear to God, I’m going to photocopy the relevant section and staple it to your forehead so that you can ponder the profound depth and the remarkable extent to which she did not include any details about this fucking calculation. It’s not derived in Schmendrick _et al._ (1983). It’s not derived in Pollo del Mar _et al._ (2001). They each provide a half-assed description of some sort of arcane black magic by which they accomplished the calculation, but none of them derive their formulas or show how to apply them. Pollo del Mar, in fact, restricts himself to providing one single equation that is patently dimensionally incorrect. I have been sleeping with both of these papers under my pillow for the last two years because they do have other stuff in them that’s useful, and I am pulling my hair out over this calculation. If Schemndrick or Pollo del Mar had anything useful to say about it, _I would know about it._ I would have fucking availed myself of their wisdom and insight instead of bashing my head about a brick wall off and on over a couple of months trying to work it all out myself. Despite the fact that this is a fairly common calculation, I have been over, under and _through_ the goddamn literature, and I can assure you that in the history of astronomy, nobody has ever been arsed to publish it, anywhere. If you could actually _help me_ with the parts of the calculations I’m having trouble with instead of referring me over and over again to sources that I know are not going to be of any help, that would be nice. Thank you. P.S. While I’m at it, fuck Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar. Fuck his definition of flux that has a factor of one over pi in it and fuck his definition of intensity relative to a fucking element of area dee sigma that you can never tell out where it is or how it’s oriented. Fuck Chandrasekhar sideways (Would that be theta equals pi over 2 or theta equals zero or theta equals my Aunt Fanny? NOBODY FUCKING KNOWS!!!) with the fucking “radiation pencil” he road in on. Fuck him, and then integrate him over four pi FUCKING steradians. ---
**Author:** ![Encinitas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@Encinitas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Encinitas)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/2 "2004-05-28T22:07:34Z")
Heh, you said “Schmendrick.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/3 "2004-05-28T22:09:26Z")
You poor sweet thing. Let me get you a beer. You’ve been working way to hard. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/4 "2004-05-28T22:38:56Z")
I’ll accept a lot on these boards. I’ve read thread after thread that pissed me off, but I managed to keep my cool and prevent myself from responding. But, Mister Podkayne, you do NOT fucking diss Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar!!! That man was a SAINT! Arguably one of the greatest Indians EVER! Worked himself up from basically nothing to become one of the world’s greatest astrophysicists! Just because you’re too much of a spacklehead to understand him doesn’t make his work any less revolutionary, you BASTARD!!! ---
**Author:** ![Hamish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a5b964/32.png) [@Hamish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamish)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/5 "2004-05-28T22:43:26Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > P.S. While I’m at it, fuck Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar. Fuck his definition of flux that has a factor of one over pi in it and fuck his definition of intensity relative to a fucking element of area dee sigma that you can never tell out where it is or how it’s oriented. Fuck Chandrasekhar sideways. Is it just me, or is this the SDMB condensed to a single post? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/6 "2004-05-28T22:43:44Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > I’ll accept a lot on these boards. I’ve read thread after thread that pissed me off, but I managed to keep my cool and prevent myself from responding. But, Mister Podkayne, you do NOT fucking diss Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar!!! > > That man was a SAINT! Arguably one of the greatest Indians EVER! Worked himself up from basically nothing to become one of the world’s greatest astrophysicists! Just because you’re too much of a spacklehead to understand him doesn’t make his work any less revolutionary, you BASTARD!!! I’m guessing your Chandrasekhar Limit was reached… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/7 "2004-05-28T23:04:21Z")
> [@Podkayne](#): > > P.S. While I’m at it, fuck Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar. Fuck his definition of flux that has a factor of one over pi in it and fuck his definition of intensity relative to a fucking element of area dee sigma that you can never tell out where it is or how it’s oriented. Fuck Chandrasekhar sideways (Would that be theta equals pi over 2 or theta equals zero or theta equals my Aunt Fanny? NOBODY FUCKING KNOWS!!!) with the fucking “radiation pencil” he road in on. Fuck him, and then integrate him over four pi FUCKING steradians. I absolutely, absolutely love this (sorry **Smeghead**.) > [@](#): > > It’s not derived in Schmendrick et al. (1983). It’s not derived in Pollo del Mar et al. (2001). I’ll have to look these up. Some of my own favorite references are Schodde and Slack (1989), J. Bromeante de Burlas y Tonterias (1948), and Bitbrain and Assfugl (1949). ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/8 "2004-05-28T23:05:35Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar!!! > > That man was a SAINT! [Pretty Too.](http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap950901.html) The Condi Haircut looks good on him. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/9 "2004-05-28T23:28:35Z")
Sorry but dissing Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar is just not on, one of the greatest scientists of all time. You know he invented the first Indian Death Ray at the age of only 12, but after burning his father’s Cow Shed was told to stick to theoretical Astrophysics and Mathematics. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2004, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/10 "2004-05-28T23:47:53Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > I’m guessing your Chandrasekhar Limit was reached… Good thing I finished my drink long before reading this. DAMN that was a good one. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/11 "2004-05-29T00:57:55Z")
They say that true wisdom comes from being aware of one’s own ignorance. I hope that’s true, because after reading this thread I feel pretty freaking dumb. (repeats to self) There is nothing wrong with a liberal arts eductation. There is nothing wrong with a liberal arts education. There is nothing wrong with a liberal arts education… ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/12 "2004-05-29T02:58:15Z")
Ummmmm, wouldn’t Podkayne be a she and not a he and therefore a bitch and not a bastard? Just asking. Unasked for advice coming: Podkayne; “just think of something clever”. This was the advice given to a PhD student close to me, in circumstances somewhat similar to yours. Makes me giggle every time I think of it, hehehehe. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/13 "2004-05-29T03:28:39Z")
**News Report: Podkayne Reaches Chandrasekhar Limit, Implodes, Emitting Massive Amounts of Radiation** Dopers assess observations for unusual strangeness and charm values No reports of any WIMPS observed Members into Eastern Religions Recommend She Explore Eightfold Path for Assistance ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/14 "2004-05-29T03:31:52Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > No reports of any WIMPS observed What about MACHOS? ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/15 "2004-05-29T03:33:00Z")
Flux? _Magnetic_ flux? 1/pi? Damn. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/16 "2004-05-29T05:44:28Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Flux? _Magnetic_ flux? 1/pi? Damn. No, particle flux. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/17 "2004-05-29T10:37:17Z")
State, pronounce, and prove Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar’s theorem. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/18 "2004-05-29T10:43:44Z")
A thought for **Podkayne** : Perhaps the reason your professor is referring you to all those sources is that he doesn’t understand how to derive the equation either, and for obvious reasons is disinclined to admit that to a student. In fact, it’s plausible that somebody somewhere jumped to a conclusion in using that equation in order to produce those results, and because they work, nobody has ever questioned the assumption that the equation is a proper derivation. Which leads to a really scary thought: Isn’t that what happened in both “Blowups Happen” and “The Year of the Jackpot”? :eek: “Put down that wrench!” ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/19 "2004-05-29T12:20:10Z")
Let me just say that as an English major I have no effing clue what you all are talking about, but it is still incredibly funny! I feel your pain, continue the good work. This is why I subscribe. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2004, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566/20 "2004-05-29T12:49:33Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Perhaps the reason your professor is referring you to all those sources is that he doesn’t understand how to derive the equation either, and for obvious reasons is disinclined to admit that to a student. How long did von Neumann’s disproof of hidden variables in quantum mechanics hold up? Sometimes even the Gods make mistakes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-derivation-does-not-appear-in-any-of-those-sources/247566.md?page=2)