# No, the Left is not anti-Semitic (Good grief!) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 3, 2015, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847 "2015-08-03T03:16:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/261 "2015-08-07T17:14:28Z")
> [@camille](#): > > It’s still a tricky question though. When someone converts to Judaism, they are considered Jews in every sense aren’t they? Does Israel make a distinction between ethnic Jews and converted Jews? It’s not quite the same as becoming a citizen of any other country, regardless of ethnicity. 1. Yes, if the conversion is according to Halacha. 2. No, if the conversion is according to Halacha. 3. It is not exactly the same, since becoming Jewish involves a religious conversion, but it is similar in that you _can_ become French. You learn French language, French culture, French cuisine etc. and you blend in. It probably would require just as much effort as becoming a Jew, but yes, you can become French. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/262 "2015-08-07T17:24:55Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > 1. Yes, if the conversion is according to Halacha. > 2. No, if the conversion is according to Halacha. > 3. It is not exactly the same, since becoming Jewish involves a religious conversion, but it is similar in that you _can_ become French. You learn French language, French culture, French cuisine etc. and you blend in. It probably would require just as much effort as becoming a Jew, but yes, you can become French. But there is still a religious distinction, which is a big difference. You can become French (in that sense) regardless of religion. There is no special citizenship category similar to Arab Israeli. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/263 "2015-08-07T17:30:09Z")
> [@camille](#): > > But there is still a religious distinction, which is a big difference. You can become French (in that sense) regardless of religion. There is no special citizenship category similar to Arab Israeli. I don’t understand that “special citizenship category” comment. What category? An Arab Israeli is a citizen. Just as there can be an Arab citizen of France. How does that contradict the “Israel is a Jewish state” and “France is a French state” thing? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/264 "2015-08-07T17:34:10Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Jewish” in that sense is not a religion. “Jewish” is an ethnicity as well. The concept of “Am” in Hebrew. So yes, Israel is an ethnically Jewish state. Like France is an ethnically French one. And Germany is an ethnically German one. You’re still comparing apples and oranges. To the extent that “French” and “German” are ethnicities, the equivalent remains “Israeli”. The fact that the Venn diagram for “Israeli” and “Jewish” would place one circle almost entirely inside the other does not mean that they are interchangable for the purpose of this comparison. One can be Israeli without being Jewish, and vice versa. > [@](#): > > Recognition for Israel as a Jewish state is as natural as recognition for France as a French state. And denying such recognition for Israel while it being ok for France or Germany is motivated by antisemitism. Be sure to recycle that barrel of well poison when you’re done emptying it. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/265 "2015-08-07T17:36:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You’re still comparing apples and oranges. To the extent that “French” and “German” are ethnicities, the equivalent remains “Israeli”. Incorrect. As demonstrated by the fact that “France is a French state” and “Israel is a Jewish state” are sentences that make sense, while “Israel is an Israeli state” is a tautology. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/266 "2015-08-07T17:40:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I don’t understand that “special citizenship category” comment. What category? > > An Arab Israeli is a citizen. Just as there can be an Arab citizen of France. How does that contradict the “Israel is a Jewish state” and “France is a French state” thing? Only Jews are considered nationals regardless of citizenship or birth country. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/267 "2015-08-07T17:41:58Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Only Jews are considered nationals regardless of citizenship or birth country. Again, no idea what you’re talking about. What is “nationals”? ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/268 "2015-08-07T18:24:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, no idea what you’re talking about. What is “nationals”? It’s basically a separate but equal status, the de facto law that would be enshrined by the Nation State law they want to pass. Military exemption, law of return, separate school system and other govt services and allocations, etc. It’s different from other democratic countries. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/269 "2015-08-07T18:42:52Z")
> [@camille](#): > > It’s basically a separate but equal status, the de facto law that would be enshrined by the Nation State law they want to pass. Military exemption, law of return, separate school system and other govt services and allocations, etc. It’s different from other democratic countries. “Military exemption” - Arab citizens of Israel are not required to serve in the army. They still (and quite a few do) volunteer. If you think that’s a negative, they would disagree. “Law of return” - does not apply to Israeli citizens, whether Jews or Arabs. You knew that, right? Separate school system - that’s what Arab Israelis want and get. They want different curriculum from Jewish schools. I am sure if they expressed a desire to integrate into Jewish school system, that could be arranged. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/270 "2015-08-07T18:46:53Z")
Totally prefer their status, unless those liberal agitators get them all riled up! The good ones know their place and don’t get all uppity! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/271 "2015-08-07T18:49:43Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > “Military exemption” - Arab citizens of Israel are not required to serve in the army. They still (and quite a few do) volunteer. Should be “They still can (and quite a few do) volunteer.” ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/272 "2015-08-07T20:39:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Incorrect. As demonstrated by the fact that “France is a French state” and “Israel is a Jewish state” are sentences that make sense, while “Israel is an Israeli state” is a tautology. I honestly have no idea how “France is a French state” is not also tautological. France is full of French people, who are French because they live in France. Israel is full of Israelis, who are Israelis because they live in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/273 "2015-08-07T20:44:11Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I honestly have no idea how “France is a French state” is not also tautological. France is full of French people, who are French because they live in France. No, they are not “French because they live in France”. “French” is an ethnicity. So is “Jew”. “Israeli” is a citizenship. Not an ethnicity. Why are Basque Basque? Because they live… where? If they live in the US, do they stop being Basque? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/274 "2015-08-07T21:05:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > No, they are not “French because they live in France”. “French” is an ethnicity. So is “Jew”. “Israeli” is a citizenship. Not an ethnicity. > > Why are Basque Basque? Because they live… where? If they live in the US, do they stop being Basque? Better not. There’s a Basque community in, of all places, Nevada. They think of themselves as “Basque”. [http://nevadabasque.com/](http://nevadabasque.com/) > **[Basque Americans in Nevada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Americans_in_Nevada)** > > Basques have been living in Northern Nevada for over a century and form a population of several thousand. Basque immigrants first came in the mid-1800s during the Gold rush. The Basques have also been closely-tied to sheep herding in Nevada and neighboring states. > The Basque-American culture is especially prominent in the town of Winnemucca. Basque immigrants to Winnemucca founded the Martin Hotel and the Winnemucca Hotel, both of which were associated with the Basque sheepherders. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/275 "2015-08-07T22:31:07Z")
> [@andros](#): > > I honestly have no idea how “France is a French state” is not also tautological. France is full of French people, who are French because they live in France. Israel is full of Israelis, who are Israelis because they live in Israel. **Terr** is being cagey about this. He knows what I’m talking about. French is an ethnicity, but it is also a _nationality_, regardless of ethnicity, right? In Israel, the Supreme Court has ruled that there is no such thing as an Israeli nationality. Your nationality is defined by your ethnicity, e.g., Jewish, Arab, Druze, etc. [Jerusalem court rejects Israel nationality petition](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-24405715) Israel is a Jewish state, therefore only Jews are “nationals”, regardless of citizenship or place of birth. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/276 "2015-08-07T22:34:11Z")
> [@camille](#): > > Israel is a Jewish state, therefore only Jews are “nationals”, regardless of citizenship or place of birth. Again, I have no idea what you think the noun “national” means. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/277 "2015-08-07T22:39:11Z")
> [@camille](#): > > **Terr** is being cagey about this. He knows what I’m talking about. > > French is an ethnicity, but it is also a _nationality_, regardless of ethnicity, right? Yes. But in the sentence “France is French”, the “French” is ethnicity. If it was nationality, the sentence would be tautological. France is an ethnic state - namely, a French state. Israel is an ethnic state - namely, a Jewish state. > [@](#): > > In Israel, the Supreme Court has ruled that there is no such thing as an Israeli nationality. Substitute the word “ethnicity” for “nationality” and you would be right. The confusion comes from the translation of the Hebrew word “leom”. It’s the same with the Russian word “национальность” - the passport designation in Soviet Union (not sure about modern Russia). Even though it looks like “nationality” it means “ethnicity”. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/278 "2015-08-07T22:41:52Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Again, I have no idea what you think the noun “national” means. You tell me what you think it means. What is your nationality? I was born in the US. I am a Jew. What is my nationality? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/279 "2015-08-07T22:42:34Z")
> [@camille](#): > > You tell me what you think it means. What is your nationality? Dual. I have two citizenships. US and Israeli. > [@](#): > > I was born in the US. I am a Jew. What is my nationality? American. ---
**Author:** ![camille](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/22d042/32.png) [@camille](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/camille)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847/280 "2015-08-07T22:49:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Dual. I have two citizenships. US and Israeli. > American. There is no Israeli nationality. That’s my point. Your nationality in Israel is Jewish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/no-the-left-is-not-anti-semitic-good-grief/726847.md?page=15)